No, I am telling you the Fathers love is perfect. Mine is not. Mine alone has many flaws. I do believe that this "fear" we have been talking about has more than one side, and it is among others, reverence and sometimes even being afraid. Why? because without the grace of God through Jesus, I CANNOT stand before a Holy God, and that is fearful.
Yes you had free will to committ the sin, but let's say in a moment of weakness you committ the sin and die, before having a chance to atone for it.
We all sin and fall short of the glory of God Mark, so yes I sin. But the bane of the religious world is IMO the very thing you say. IMO if a preacher is preaching that sort of your in your out thing it is wrong. I do not and cannot sit around second to second wondering if I have prayed to "receive atonement" as you put it, just for the moment. Christianity is an acceptance of Jesus the Christ to cover me, to make me righteous before God, and it is not a peek aboo deal where it is " now your lost- now your saved -now your lost -now your saved.
Lifestyle.
We are now at this point,past the freedom of choice option. the sin has been committed, and you stand in judgement. whatever happens to Dan at this point, is up to god, in the sense that whatever he desires for your ultimate outcome is totally achievable through his will.
interesting mark. oh excuse me...Mark. YOU know what? You are right . It IS totally up to Him. So why are we telling Him what He should or should not do?
I can only go by the scriptures, Mark. I don't have a bunch of "insightful feelings" over it, much to the chagrin of one Sam he am.
Remember sheep and goats? Why did Jesus say?::
32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Remember the damnation?
John 5:
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Why were these things said?
Why then, would he ever choose to punish you? Punishment would mean that he desires an outcome of revenge, or retribution. Those are the only outcomes of punishment.
I disagree. Do you punish your children for "retribution" or "revenge"? No you punish in most cases to protect them and help them grow. The analogies are made in the bible about "pruning"John 15:2 (back to the trees and fruit) and it is also recorded,:(( Rev. 3:19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.))
And this:((Hebrews 12:5 And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons: "My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6 because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son."
7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?
8 If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons.
9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live!
10 Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness.
11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.
12 Therefore, strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees.
13 "Make level paths for your feet," so that the lame may not be disabled, but rather healed.
14 Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
15 See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.
That discipline I was speaking above is IMO in the physical, now.
Josh. 24:
14 Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD.
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Mark, since I have CHOSEN to be a follower of Christ, I do accept some things that you do not. I accept that is is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God. I accept that He chose me to be grafted in, I accept that if I choose to NOT be faithful or if I bear no fruit, I am in danger of being put away from Light.
I also accept that I am neither the Judge, nor the Potter. I accept that I depend on His mercy, it is He who can make me stand.
Fear as a vehicle for awe or reverence...
I don't see fear as a vehicle...I see it intertwined as a part of each.fear/awe/reverence.
dan |
