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1 WAS GOING TO BUILD AN INTERNET BROWSER FOR WINDOWS 95,
2 CORRECT?
3 A. I THINK CERTAINLY WELL BEFORE I JOINED MICROSOFT IN
4 EARLY '94 AND MAYBE EVEN SOONER, MICROSOFT HAD DECIDED TO
5 BUILD INTO THE PRODUCT THAT BECAME WINDOWS 95 A NUMBER OF
6 INTERNET TECHNOLOGIES THAT COULD PROVIDE, AMONG OTHER
7 THINGS, CERTAIN KINDS OF BROWSING FUNCTIONALITY. BUT IT WAS
8 ALWAYS MICROSOFT'S INTENT TO PROVIDE A PLATFORM TO DO THIS
9 THAT WOULD ALLOW LOTS OF PEOPLE TO ADD VALUE ON TOP OF THAT
10 PLATFORM, INCLUDING NETSCAPE, AMONG OTHERS.
11 Q. MR. ROSEN, I WANT YOU TO PROVIDE WHATEVER EXPLANATION
12 FOR AN ANSWER THAT YOU HAVE THAT YOU BELIEVE IS NECESSARY TO
13 KEEP AN ANSWER FROM BEING MISLEADING. BUT IF YOU WOULD BE
14 WILLING TO DO SO, I'D LIKE YOU TO BEGIN BY TRYING TO RESPOND
15 DIRECTLY TO MY QUESTION AND THEN GIVE YOUR EXPLANATION SO
16 THAT I AT LEAST HAVE THAT AS A CONTEXT. WOULD YOU BE
17 WILLING TO DO THAT?
18 A. I WOULD BE VERY WILLING TO DO THAT, MR. BOIES.
19 Q. NOW, MY QUESTION IS, DID THERE COME A TIME WHEN,
20 ACCORDING TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE -- HOWEVER YOU HAVE ACQUIRED
21 IT -- THAT MICROSOFT DECIDED TO BUILD AN INTERNET BROWSER
22 FOR WINDOWS 95?
23 A. YES, BUT IN THE SENSE OF INTERNET BROWSER -- AND I KNOW
24 THIS -- I CAN'T -- I MUST PUT THIS IN CONTEXT BECAUSE THE
25 INTERNET BROWSER INCORPORATES A GREAT MANY TECHNOLOGIES,
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1 SOME OF WHICH ARE USED TO PROVIDE THE BASIC FUNCTIONALITIES
2 THAT MICROSOFT AND OTHERS COULD USE, AND SOME OF WHICH
3 PROVIDE SIGNIFICANT VALUE ADDED ON TOP OF THOSE
4 TECHNOLOGIES.
5 SO IN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, IT IS VERY
6 IMPORTANT TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE TWO, BECAUSE MICROSOFT
7 WAS ENCOURAGING NETSCAPE TO ADOPT THE UNDERLYING
8 TECHNOLOGIES IT WAS BUILDING INTO WINDOWS 95 THAT, IN FACT,
9 EXISTED ON OTHER PLATFORMS, LIKE MANY VARIETIES OF UNIX, AND
10 BUILD A PRODUCT ON TOP OF THOSE, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF AS MANY
11 OF THE TECHNOLOGICAL CAPABILITIES THAT WE WERE BUILDING IN
12 AS POSSIBLE.
13 AND MICROSOFT WAS ALSO BUILDING IN SOME
14 FUNCTIONALITY WHICH MAY, IN FACT, BE DIFFERENT, IN MANY
15 RESPECTS, THAN WHAT OTHERS WOULD BUILD ON TOP OF IT.
16 Q. THE TERM "BROWSER" IS A TERM THAT WAS REGULARLY USED
17 WITHIN MICROSOFT IN 1995 AND 1996 AND 1997, CORRECT, SIR?
18 A. YES.
19 Q. OKAY. AND YOU KNEW WHAT THAT MEANT WHEN YOU HEARD IT,
20 RIGHT?
21 A. YES, SIR, I DID. BUT ONE THING THAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY
22 IN MY LAST ANSWER IS THAT THE TERM "BROWSER" IS
23 CONTEXT-SENSITIVE, AND I WAS TRYING TO BE VERY PRECISE IN MY
24 ANSWER, AND ANSWER IN THE CONTEXT WITH WHICH YOU ASKED YOUR
25 LAST QUESTION.
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1 Q. NOW, USING "BROWSER" IN THE WAY THAT MICROSOFT AND YOU
2 ROUTINELY USED IT IN YOUR BUSINESS IN 1995 AND 1996 AND
3 1997, DID MICROSOFT BELIEVE IN LATE 1994 AND EARLY 1995,
4 WHEN, ACCORDING TO YOU, MICROSOFT WAS ENCOURAGING NETSCAPE
5 TO BUILD A BROWSER FOR WINDOWS 95, THAT NETSCAPE'S BROWSER
6 WOULD COMPETE WITH MICROSOFT'S BROWSER?
7 A. I'M SORRY, SIR. THAT WAS A VERY LONG QUESTION. CAN YOU
8 PLEASE REPHRASE IT?
9 Q. CERTAINLY.
10 YOU HAVE SAID THAT IN LATE 1994 AND CONTINUING
11 THEREAFTER, MICROSOFT ENCOURAGED NETSCAPE TO BUILD A BROWSER
12 FOR WINDOWS 95, CORRECT?
13 A. YES.
14 Q. AND YOU HAVE SAID THAT MICROSOFT INTENDED TO BUILD A
15 BROWSER FOR WINDOWS 95, CORRECT?
16 A. NO. I SAID MICROSOFT INTENDED TO BUILD BROWSING
17 FUNCTIONALITY IN VARIOUS LEVELS OF TECHNOLOGY THAT SUPPORTED
18 THAT INTO WINDOWS 95.
19 Q. MR. ROSEN, MICROSOFT REPEATEDLY SAID IN 1995 AND 1996
20 AND 1997 THAT IT WAS BUILDING AND OFFERING A BROWSER FOR
21 WINDOWS 95; DID IT NOT, SIR?
22 A. SIR, I CAN ONLY TELL YOU WHAT I KNEW AND WHAT I
23 BELIEVED. I DON'T THINK I CAN TELL YOU WHAT MICROSOFT
24 BELIEVED. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO PUT SOME CONTEXT IN FRONT OF
25 ME FOR THOSE STATEMENTS, I'D BE VERY HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM.
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1 Q. MR. ROSEN, I WILL PUT THE CONTEXT IN FRONT OF YOU IF I
2 HAVE TO, BUT WHAT I'M ASKING YOU RIGHT NOW IS FOR YOUR BEST
3 TESTIMONY HERE UNDER OATH.
4 IN 1995 AND 1996 AND 1997, TO YOUR OWN KNOWLEDGE,
5 DID MICROSOFT SAY INTERNALLY AND EXTERNALLY THAT IT WAS
6 OFFERING A BROWSER FOR WINDOWS 95?
7 A. NO, SIR. AS I TRIED TO DESCRIBE IN MY LAST ANSWER,
8 MICROSOFT, DURING THAT PERIOD, TO MY OWN BEST KNOWLEDGE,
9 SAID IT WAS BUILDING BROWSER FUNCTIONALITY INTO WINDOWS 95.
10 Q. ALL RIGHT, SIR. AND I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR. WHAT
11 YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF MICROSOFT SAYING,
12 INTERNALLY OR EXTERNALLY, THAT IT WAS OFFERING A BROWSER FOR
13 WINDOWS 95 IN 1995, 1996 AND 1997; THAT'S YOUR TESTIMONY?
14 A. NO, SIR, IT'S NOT MY TESTIMONY. MY TESTIMONY, WHICH I
15 THINK I'VE GIVEN VERY CLEARLY IN THE LAST FOUR ANSWERS, IS
16 THAT MICROSOFT HAS SAID THAT IT IS BUILDING BROWSER
17 FUNCTIONALITY INTO WINDOWS 95. THAT IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN
18 THE STATEMENT THAT YOU REPEATED BACK TO ME.
19 Q. OKAY. NOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'VE SAID THAT MICROSOFT
20 SAID IT WAS BUILDING BROWSER FUNCTIONALITY INTO WINDOWS 95.
21 THAT'S YOUR TESTIMONY, RIGHT?
22 A. YES, SIR.
23 Q. OKAY. NOW, I HAVE A DIFFERENT QUESTION. I'M NOT
24 TALKING ABOUT BROWSER FUNCTIONALITY -- WHATEVER THAT MEANS.
25 I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT THE SIMPLE WORD "BROWSER." DO YOU
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1 UNDERSTAND THAT?
2 A. I HAVE HEARD YOU SAY THE WORD, YES, SIR.
3 Q. OKAY. NOW, WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS NOT ONLY DID YOU HEAR
4 ME SAY THE WORD, BUT IN 1995 AND 1996 AND 1997, DID YOU HEAR
5 MICROSOFT SAY AND WRITE THE WORD "BROWSER" AND SAY THAT THEY
6 WERE GOING TO OFFER A BROWSER FOR WINDOWS 95?
7 A. SIR, I CANNOT ANSWER THAT QUESTION BECAUSE, AS I'VE TOLD
8 YOU, I CAN ONLY TESTIFY TO WHAT I KNEW AND WHAT I HEARD. I
9 CANNOT TESTIFY TO MICROSOFT.
10 Q. AND, SIR, IF YOU NEVER HEARD ANYBODY SAY THAT MICROSOFT
11 WAS GOING TO OFFER A BROWSER FOR WINDOWS 95 IN 1995 OR 1996
12 OR 1997, THEN I WANT TO GET THAT TESTIMONY.
13 IN OTHER WORDS, I'M NOT ASKING YOU TO TESTIFY
14 ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE AT MICROSOFT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE SAID THAT
15 YOU DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT, OKAY? DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?
16 A. YES.
17 Q. I'M ONLY ASKING FOR YOUR OWN KNOWLEDGE. AND WHAT I'M
18 ASKING FOR IS WHETHER YOU WERE AWARE THAT PEOPLE IN
19 MICROSOFT IN 1995 OR 1996 OR 1997 WERE SAYING THAT MICROSOFT
20 WAS GOING TO OFFER A BROWSER FOR WINDOWS 95?
21 A. I WILL GIVE YOU THE SAME ANSWER THAT I GAVE TO YOUR LAST
22 FIVE QUESTIONS, WHICH IS THAT, NO, SIR, WHAT I HEARD WAS
23 THAT PEOPLE SAID, AND I HEARD AND I UNDERSTOOD THAT
24 MICROSOFT WAS BUILDING BROWSER FUNCTIONALITY INTO
25 WINDOWS 95.
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1 Q. OKAY. DID YOU EVER HEAR PEOPLE TALK ABOUT A BROWSER
2 BATTLE WITHIN MICROSOFT IN 1995 OR 1996 OR 1997?
3 A. THE QUESTION WAS DID I HEAR PEOPLE TALK ABOUT A BROWSER
4 BATTLE WITHIN MICROSOFT? THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS,
5 "NO." TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, MICROSOFT ONLY OFFERED
6 ONE -- THERE WAS NO BATTLE WITHIN MICROSOFT ABOUT OFFERING A
7 BROWSER.
8 Q. DID YOU HEAR, SIR -- DID YOU HEAR PEOPLE WITHIN
9 MICROSOFT TALK ABOUT A BROWSER BATTLE BETWEEN MICROSOFT AND
10 NETSCAPE?
11 A. AT WHAT POINT IN TIME, SIR?
12 Q. IN 1995 OR 1996 OR 1997?
13 A. I'M NOT CERTAIN. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO GIVE ME A CONTEXT
14 FOR THAT, I WOULD BE VERY HAPPY TO ANSWER IT.
15 Q. BUT YOUR ANSWER IS, WITHOUT BEING REFRESHED WITH
16 DOCUMENTS, YOU'RE NOT CERTAIN?
17 A. I'M NOT CERTAIN THAT I HEARD THOSE SPECIFIC WORDS, NO,
18 SIR.
19 Q. DID YOU KNOW OR DID IT COME TO YOUR ATTENTION THAT IN
20 1995 OR 1996 OR 1997, MICROSOFT WAS SEEKING TO GAIN BROWSER
21 MARKET SHARE?
22 A. NO, SIR. MY UNDERSTANDING, YOUR HONOR, IS THAT
23 MICROSOFT WAS TRYING TO LOOK AT TECHNOLOGIES SURROUNDING USE
24 OF THE INTERNET AND LOOKING AT USAGE SHARE OF THOSE
25 TECHNOLOGIES, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT I UNDERSTAND WHAT
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1 BROWSER MARKET SHARE PARTICULARLY MEANS.
2 Q. LET ME BEGIN WITH JUST WHETHER YOU EVER HEARD ANYBODY
3 SAY OR SAW ANYBODY WRITE THAT BROWSER MARKET SHARE WAS AN
4 IMPORTANT GOAL FOR MICROSOFT.
5 A. I DON'T RECALL HAVING SEEN THAT.
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