><>...Mark, if you don't mind, I'd like to say something...><>
I know my good brother Dan doesn't mind. Thanks Dan
BTW Dan, what is luby?
Mark, There is nothing that can stop a non-believer from coming to Christ, if they have truly been drawn by God.
The concept which you and Dan are discussing, is not a one dimensional, nor is it a very widely accepted doctrine, outside the Christian Church. ...Not in the meaning of Christianity anyway.
There are, am I'm sure that you would agree, many millions of women that are in marriages in which they are used, abused,and play handmaid to their overbearing husbands...This has nothing to do with Christianity. Many cultures demand the demeaning and debasing of their wives, and expect their wives to bow to them, we have all heard of these atrocities...This is not at all what is spoken of in the scriptures.!
This isssue you are discussing is just one of many doctrines that the secular world uses as unreasonable leverage against Christianity.
As to:
"because it says so".
You asked of Dan:
Can you understand why a person
who is a non-believer would look at that and say, "that's not good enough"
I for one Mark,understand very well, that if that is not good enough for whoever, then it is because they just care not understand who Christ really is, and what it really means to be a Christian.
You see Mark, when God is dealing with a persons heart there is nothing,I do repeat, nothing, that will stand in the way of their receiving Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.!
Millions of people have gone to their death proclaiming the name of Christ, and it is not a difficult guess to say that many more will.
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You also wrote:
If you
take a situation that on the surface looks like chauvinism(sp?)(when you a deny a
women basic rights for no other reason than gender, that is chauvinism)and have no
other reason to explain it besides, "it says so",
Basic rights Mark?
The right to rule the roost...smile...what is so basic about that.
Really Mark, that is not a basic right afforded to anyone, not even a man.
To continue what you said:
a non-believer will just look at it
and say that he doesn't believe that God denys any human basic rights.
And the unbeliever would be correct.
God does not deny anybody any human basic rights.!
To elaborate a little further on the doctrine in question here, as Dan said, one must take the entire concept into consideration. The scripture does not intend for any woman to ever be denied her basic rights, nor does it even imply she should sacrifice her indivuality, under any circumstances. The scriptures which speak to this issue are a guide for all encompassing happiness for all concerned.
Husbands are commanded to love their wives as Christ loved the church. And if all husbands loved their wives as Christ loves the church, women all over the world, and from all walks of life, would be flocking to those men, and I dare say, divorce would be a Dinosaur!
Then finally you answered with this:
I KNOW that it keeps many women from believing in literal translation,
and keeps some from christianity as a whole.
If you really do believe this is the reason that keeps some from coming to Christ and his love, then I have a bridge to sell you.!
Nothing Mark, can prevent a person from coming to God, and receiving Christ as their Saviour if they are being drawn by my Father. Nothing!
And I also know that unless one is drawn to God, by the power of His Holy Spirit, that understanding any of this is fruitless.
God knows the soul and spirit of those who are sincerely seeking Him with a contrite heart, and He will reveal Himself to them and draw them to His Son my Lord Jesus the Christ.
You see Mark, when it is all added up it really has little or nothing to do with "wives submit to your husbands", It has everything to do with;
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever should believe Him will not perish, but have eternal Life"
Sincerely,
Shalom...><>
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