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To: freeus who wrote (132512)6/12/1999 12:11:00 PM
From: Bald Eagle  Respond to of 176387
 
freeus,
I don't know if this will make you feel better, but my wife has had a similar problem which has been going on for five months now. She has a pain in the hip/base of spine area. She says it hurts pretty much all the time. She has had X-rays, bone scans and last Thursday, she went in for an MRI. We will get the results on Monday. She used to be a regular exerciser and now she can hardly do anything. Though she does get around well enough to still go to work.
I hope you can get your physical problem fixed soon.
Good luck!

BE



To: freeus who wrote (132512)6/12/1999 12:32:00 PM
From: stockman_scott  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 176387
 
~OT~ freeus: To get more info. on lower back pain check out Dr. Koop's new website at: drkoop.com. They have a search engine, links to content categories and a lot of interesting resources. Of course DELL owns part of the company <G> .

If you want other online healthcare perspectives check out:

intellihealth.com
mediconsult.com
medscape.com
webmd.com

I'll be thinking about you and I sure hope you feel better soon.

Best Regards,

Scott



To: freeus who wrote (132512)6/12/1999 12:48:00 PM
From: OLDTRADER  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 176387
 
RE:Freeus-Sorry to hear of your problem-All I can offer is that I had a syatic nerve pinch problem and my health club trainer told me to work on building up the upper body as it supports the weight on the lower back-(stronger muscles)-for three years I have done that as well as other areas in a persistent but non aggressive manner.I'ts worked-also lying on the floor-feet and legs pulled up tight and rocking slowly on the spine helps-stretching "trainer is worth the money"-to help you do this correctly.I believe stress is at the base of most problems-DE-STRESS-I did -now out of debt on DELL position.Best wbm



To: freeus who wrote (132512)6/12/1999 7:36:00 PM
From: Keo  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 176387
 
Freeus: I'll use regular email to send a list of sites that might be useful. But initially... two things...
-1- There are some conditions such as Ankylosing Spondolytis
(not sure of spelling of "ankylosing") which have extremely dramatic onset of symptoms, even tho it is dormant from birth.
This is tested thru blood test. I know two people who have it.
One person was diagnosed immeditaely, the other suffered for years without any idea what was wrong.
Typical profile: person of Anglo-Saxon descent; onset in early 20s.

-2- Keyboard related activities. This may seem like a laughably trivial activity to cause such pain --- but I experienced terrible and sudden pains in 1998 as a result of so many hours on the computer. My right arm became useless and swelled up to the point where it spontaneously bruised.
Then I developed terrible left elbow tendonitis, and just recently hip pains shooting down my leg.
From reading, talking with two osteopaths, experimenting with what
my instincts proposed, and consulting with my yoga teacher (she's in Orinda), I came up with various stretches and exercises that really help. (and sometimes need anti-inflamatory - ibuprofen)
And I have to absolutely really truly watch time on keyboard,
completely change the posture, chair, keyboard etc..
I deliberately use different types of set-ups at work versus home so that I'm not in same type of postures..
Surprizing how much pain and how suddenly this became a problem for me. So the question is, how addicted are you to the computer?
Can you take a break? Even if not related, it probably won't aide your recovery. (So actually sending a list of web-links is kind of cruel...)

Homeopathy, acupuncture, brief fast, etc.. certainly could help..
but... perhaps rule out something like an osteo-arthritic condition.
And I shall include you in my prayers.

Keo



To: freeus who wrote (132512)6/12/1999 9:39:00 PM
From: Bill France  Respond to of 176387
 
Sounds like kidney stones to me. I have had them for years and I know the symptoms are similar.
Luck to you...

Bill



To: freeus who wrote (132512)6/12/1999 10:30:00 PM
From: ArtsCool  Respond to of 176387
 
I was surprised no one mentioned SHIATSU.

Come on Freeus say it SHE-AT-SOO, SHE-AT-SOO

Sometimes (every year or so) for the last eight years, I have gotten this terrible unbearable pain in my middle to lower back, seemingly in the same spot. I know that by the next day I will hardly be able to walk and can not even bend down. This has been going on since I turned thirty, not seventy. Stress and general lack of movement are usually the only thing I can think it is. Well, it's time for shiatsu, I say.

I prefer to go to a clinic/ school here in Honolulu. I have tried some of the shiatsu specialists and they cost more and I must say are too gentile. It is also comforting to know that lying on the same rug just a few feet away are usually 2 to 5 other return customers, the place is busy because they are so good. The specialists seem to not want to bear down hard on you as shiatsu is meant to do.

Shiatsu is a problem specific massage - go to them complaining of hip pain and they will press, trigger all the accupressure points for that pain and keep most of the massage localized to that hip. Relatively speaking, shiatsu can be painful, but never sadistic. I have trusted all the therapists to do a good job and the school has always surpassed my expectations. I knew it would work but it really is so beautiful to go from being hardly able to walk, drive a car or even tie my shoes to be able to do all that the next day!

It sounds like you need real physical contact by a caring Shiatsu therapist. Hey, this is not osteopathy. Shiatsu is direct.

Fasting may or may not be a good idea. Your body may be craving protein to repair any damage that may have occurred. What about a low sodium macrobiotc diet?

Movement. Plain and simple and rest, Rest, REST! When you are not resting keep dancing! All right, we can not dance all the time but we can be active, we can move,, stretch, walk and jog lightly even while in deep thought or pleasant conversation. Ya' gotta keep movin'. This is a really fascinating anti-depressant that is so gloriously simple. The body craves movement. Those pieces are not born to be fused into a living rigor mortis, the joints really want to flex and sometimes do spontaneously.

Then their is the chair. The chair that is supposed to support us, is ruining us. What does that mean? Well I kinda' always suspected after prolonged sitting for hours or slumping, how lethargic and desensitized I have felt. Yea, I really am standing as I type these words. I am a slow typer but much faster standing. I have a little table for my keyboard that is on wheels and can be set waist high. This has helped my focus tremendously. Is it not tiring to stand for hours at a time? It depends. If I am having fun, no. If not having fun, the whole world seems tiresome. l am reading a fascinating book called "The Chair". The chair is our modern enemy. But they are so comfortable you may say. No, that is a mass delusion. Sustained sitting (hours and hours, as hundreds of millions of people tend to do) in chairs is just plain unhealthy. It is difficult for some people to breath properly while sitting. A long list of maladies follows not being able to breath. Below are some book reviews and reader comments.

The COMOS will speak to all that ASK. How to ASK is a long topic. ASK clearly and openly.

"THE CHAIR"

Elizabeth Zimmer, Village Voice: "You spot an
adorable, buoyantly erect person at a party. You head
to the kitchen for a drink. When you return you
discover your quarry lying under the piano. Do you (a)
cringe and look for other company, (b) alert the host,
or (c) get down there with him? Sociologist Galen
Cranz, who teaches architecture students at Berkeley,
would encourage option c. Her treatise on chair
design, pocked with illustrations of seating
arrangements, argues for "seating reform" -- and for a
return to squatting, sitting on the floor, crawling,
and stretching out in places like offices and
airports. Also an Alexander teacher, she describes the
ways sitting in most chairs deforms the spine, and
debunks the notion of a perfect seat, preferring
instead to encourage mobility. She . . . analyzes the
status concerns that shape the way we furnish our
living rooms, boardrooms, and schools. . . . I took
Cranz's book on a trip and found myself assessing the
seating options in ferries, buses, planes, trains (the
best), and other people's houses; freed from bondage
to the machines on my desk, I celebrated, as she does,
chances to recline and stretch. . . . Engaged in
fascinating and useful multidisciplinary research,
Cranz is an avatar for body-friendly design, proposing
office environments where a recumbent woman would be
recognized, and respected, as still at work. Read it
and cheer."

-------------------------------------------------------
Customer Comments
Average Customer Review: [4.5 out of 5 stars] Number
of Reviews: 7

A reader from Chicago, Illinois , March 30, 1999
[5 out of 5 stars]
A wonderful read about an unexpected subject.
I never thought I'd be reading a book about chairs!
But this book is well worthwhile for anyone who has
ever complained about uncomfortable chairs - at work,
at home, at the airport etc. The book gives you quite
a bit of practical information. I was struck by the
references to the Alexander Technique (the author is
an Alexander Technique teacher as well as being a
university professor) and so I did a little researsch
on that topic. There are quite a few good books
available and a very comprehensive web site at
alexandertechnique.com

ramsey@math.hawaii.edu from Honolulu, Hawaii , March
14, 1999 [5 out of 5 stars]
This book has inspired me to further research.
This highly original book inspired me to look further
into the design of my own work and home spaces. I
immediately wanted to try out those Norwegian
"perching" work desks (for students) on a classroom,
just to get student feedback on them. Alas, that may
take years! BTW, where can one order such furniture?

sontag@mtpress.com Jerry Sontag from San Francisco ,
February 25, 1999 [5 out of 5 stars]
A fascinating challenge to anyone who sits
There are certain subjects that do not seem to lend
themselves to serious or interesting scrutiny. I would
have said the history of the chair, and its place in
society, would have been one of those subjects until
reading Professor (and Alexander Teacher) Galen
CranzÕs new book, The Chair: Rethinking Culture, Body
and Design.

Professor Cranz takes a look at the history of chairs,
their place establishing hierarchical relationships
among people, and the various design attempts artists
and architects have made at creating chairs. Cranz
makes clear in her book that in chair design often the
Òemphasis is on materials-plastic, metal, and wood in
varied applications-rather than on the effect of the
chair and its structure upon the body and its
structure.Ó The chair becomes an object, an everyday
sculpture, that oftentimes disregards the fact that it
is being used in particular ways for particular
purposes, with substantial impact on the individual
who sits in the chair.

In recent history, an increasing focus has been made
on the way chairs affect our use. For anyone
interested in the way we use ourselves, the portion of
the book that examines the ergonomic attempts to
create a more body-friendly chair reads like a dark
comedy, as various attempts are made to address one
part of the body, without adequately considering
another part. Cranz takes us through this process and
helps us see the misconceptions that many designers
have built into their chairs. One of the first, and
biggest, problems facing designers is figuring out how
to determine what would make a chair that facilitated
ease and comfort. Comfort is a particularly vexing
concept, for reasons obvious to any Alexander teacher,
since the old familiar habitual patterns are going to
tend to feel comfortable, at least in the short term.
Cranz suggests that the various attempts at measuring
comfort, including the use of ÒElectromyogram tests...
stresses along the spine, using needles in the discs
or pressure-sensitive pillsÓ have been unsuccessful in
measuring a meaningful change in comfort level for the
person sitting.

Another refreshing aspect of the book is the radical
notion put forward by a new breed of ergonomic
designers that chair design specifically, and
workplace design in general, should not be restricted
by Òtraditional cultural expectations. They want to
change traditional workplace design. For them, the
beginning and end of design should be the body.Ó

Cranz gives a short history of the Alexander Technique
in her book, but only references the Technique when it
is relevant to the general design questions at hand.
The Technique is presented as a unique approach that
can help inform chair design, without proselytizing
about the specific benefits of the Technique itself.
The Technique has simply become, in effect, part of
the relevant literature on design issues.

In one section of the book, Cranz talks about how
oneÕs conception of gravity will change oneÕs design
ideas: ÒIf a designer thinks gravity is the enemy,
he/she will design chairs like bags to hold our
collapsed structures. But if the designer believes
that gravity is useful to us, the sitting surface can
function more like a platform so that the structure of
forces and counterforces helps us spring into the
bodyÕs natural volume-as opposed to being stacked from
the bottom up like a wall or collapsed into a heap.Ó
She goes on to say that ÒThe most wide-ranging
philosophical insight from the Alexander Technique and
the somatic perspective generally is that human beings
are designed for movement, and that more important
than any single given posture is the quality of our
movement, our overall coordination.Ó

Cranz questions the traditional notions of lumbar
support, of chair backs that do not continue high
enough to support the shoulders and head, and of the
various other design decisions that have interfered
with a more natural use of the body. In the last
sections of the book, Cranz lays out her
recommendations for a better chair, (Òa forward-tilt
seat, firm-textured surface, a flat uncontoured seat,
butt space between seat and backrest,Ó) as well as
examining some of the more unconventional approaches
that have been taken to try to address the complex
challenges of more intelligent and humane chair
design.

Cranz has successfully turned a topic that could
easily have been relegated to the back shelves of
university libraries into a fascinating account of
what chairs have been, done and stood for over the
centuries, and what they can become in the future.

acmandal@gentofte.mail.telia.com from Copenhagen,
Denmark , January 20, 1999 [4 out of 5 stars]
ÒThe ChairÓ contains an excellent survey of sitting
problems
Professor CranzÕs book illustrates in a very fine way
the history, anatomy, ergonomics and problems of chair
seating. I also give some good suggestions on how to
reduce the strain of the back, neck and arms. With her
background an as Alexander teacher she understands the
importance of sitting upright and in balance (like on
horseback) to prevent damaging the back. This is in
strong contrast to the majority of the worldÕs
experts. They still believe, that a close permanent
contact with a Ògood lumbar supportÓ is the best way
to prevent back problems. At the same time they claim
as much variation in posture as possible, but this is
highly contradictory. Any one should be convinced if
they study a school class sitting hunched over their
desks. Several studies have demonstrated that about 60
% of the older school children complain of back
problems. With the increasing use of computers this
number will increase in future. As professor Cranz
emphazises, our civilization is more or less based on
chairs as most education, production, transportation
and office work takes place in a seated position.
Nevertheless the anatomy of the seated man is still
unknown to most chair designers. Education of
furniture designers, training of good sitting posture
and standardization of furniture is also still mainly
based on wishful thinking, moral and discipline from
the days of Queen Victoria and Chancellor Bismarck.
Unfortunately most scientific studies of the seated
man deals with tiny details without considering the
person as a whole. Professor CranzÕs book gives a much
more allround description of the problems connected
with the extensive use of chairs than any of the books
I have ever read. Besides it is easily read, very
interesting and has plenty of good illustrations. With
the increasing number of back and neck pain sufferers
this book is highly needed and it will hopefully
inspire to a more serious debate about sitting
problems.

A reader from Chicago, IL , November 23, 1998
[5 out of 5 stars]
fabulous gift
Over the weekend I read the book cover to
cover--reclining, standing, perching, squatting, even
sitting (on the way to the dunes, in a properly
reconstructed car seat). What an experience, and what
a fabulous gift! I can't decide which was more
gratifying: the seamless matching of extraordinary
form with compelling content, or the subtly powerful
way in which the restrained and tasteful prose mounts
an actual sociocultural revolution.

Mark Kmicikiewicz (cke.mark@sympatico.ca) from
Montreal, Canada , November 21, 1998
[4 out of 5 stars]
Consumer, business, designers, engineers...
We read the book with great pleasure and interest, we
recommend it to everybody - who may occasionally make
use of the chair! Cranz had courage to address the
very serious situation, especially with growing
tendency to a more and more static work places (i.e.
computers, but not only). The cost to the society, for
wrong (and totally misunderstood by public) approach
to the sitting Ð is colossal (ÒIn 1978 an estimated $
14 billion were spent for the treatment of Low Back
Pain [LBL] in the United StatesÓ). This book, in our
view, is an excellent guide for general public, which
deserve an independent opinion about seating, from
that of manufacturersÕ bottom line biased opinion. In
our opinion, there is not enough of real engineering
involved in chair design. The chair design is affected
too much by ÒdesignersÓ, who are not exactly the
engineers. Unfortunately in industries, the terms
designers and engineers are too often very blurred,
difficult to distinguish. Who has bigger influence on
the outcome in product design could very often be
surprising. Add to this the influence of top
executives, board of directors, marketing people, and
the cocktail of decision making is ready. Very seldom,
the above mentioned people have anything to do with
engineering. As an example, we would like to cite from
the book, the uselessness of so popular Òbackrest
padsÓ, when the natural lumbar curve of the spine is
already straighten by the simple fact that we are
sitting (in vast majority of cases) with 90¡ torso to
thighs positions. Pads can do nothing to address the
situation. See also in Cranz book, the reference to
Dr. A.C.Mandal about proper mechanics of sitting. We
may disagree with her about the passenger car seats.
In our view the car seats and the driverÕs position
should be modified to better suit the dynamic
conditions and frontal area of the car (which should
be diminished). We wish somebody had the guts to write
the similar book about cars, as Cranz wrote about
chairs.

lily@az.com from Bellingham, WA , September 18, 1998
[4 out of 5 stars]
An interesting and humorous look at a basic necessity.

I thoroughly enjoyed this account of chairs through
history. Chairs are something that we take for granted
but they are a basic necessity. It is difficult to
find a chair that is really suitable and comfortable
and this friendly book has an intelligent and humorous
way of looking at something that most people rarely
think about. Anyone who is of an unusual size or
proportions will understand easily what I mean. I
enjoyed this book very much and would recommend it
highly.

-------------------------------------------------------
Customers who bought titles by Galen Cranz also bought
titles by these authors:

* Mel Byars
* Charlotte Fiell
* Miriam Stimpson
* Noritsugu Oda
* Clement Meadmore



To: freeus who wrote (132512)6/13/1999 1:15:00 AM
From: John F. Dowd  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 176387
 
Freeus: I will pray for you. Also BMichaels has probably offered the best analysis. Sounds like a siatic nerve/lower back spasm. I had one recently and it lasted for about 3-4 days. Like a cold they go away in that amount of time with or without medication. Hot baths and pulling knees up to chest help. One other source of back pain and pinched nerves going down to the butt is constipation. Hang in there. JFD