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Politics : Bill Clinton Scandal - SANITY CHECK -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: pezz who wrote (53742)	6/21/1999 2:46:00 PM
From: Johannes Pilch	Respond to of 67261

>Assisted suicide.... I see no evidence of what you speak. Quite the contrary the medical profession loves the status quo.< Unless the status quo is ever decreasing profits, hence the managed care infrastructure. Combine this with euthanasia and you likely will have a serious problem on your hands. >They are making huge fortunes keeping people alive and suffering. They are the ones fighting this movement.[ with small exceptions ] < Notice this. You imply the healthcare providers are keeping folks alive and suffering so they can milk them for money. If they can be this unscrupulous now, then they will have little problem being unscrupulous when it comes to trimming care to meet a bottom line. >What evidence do you have to support [involuntary Euthanasia in the Netherlands]? I am surprised you do not know the evidence, pezz – particularly since you claim Euthanasia a positive development. It is well-known enough. "Anxiety is growing among threatened groups. Warnings have been published that elderly patients, out of fear of euthanasia, refuse hospitalization and even refuse to consult doctors. An inquiry among hospital patients showed that many fear their own families may ask for euthanasia without consulting them. The Dutch Patients' Association placed a warning in the press that, in many hospitals, patients are being killed without their will or knowledge, or the knowledge of their families, and advised the patients and their families to carefully inquire on every step in the treatment, and when in doubt, to consult a reliable expert outside the hospital." R. Fenigsen, "Involuntary Euthanasia in Holland," Wall St. Journal, Sept. 30, 1987 Euthanasia in the Netherlands was basically openly accepted in Feb. 1994. Though it had been well known to have occurred long before then. According to a 1991 report commissioned by the Dutch Ministry of Justice, about 33% of all Euthanasia deaths in the Netherlands were not voluntary. The situation has worsened now that euthanasia is effectively legal. Many older folks literally fear going into a hospital because they believe it likely someone there will kill them. And many report a pervasive sentiment in Dutch culture that older folk who strive to live are not doing their duty. Of course this likely increases a sense of isolation and depression in these folk, spurring them ever onward to kill themselves. Depression, not pain, according to a 1996 update to the 1991 (Remmelink) study and others here in the states, is the number one reason people seek to kill themselves. Even our very liberal Village Voice has lambasted Dutch society for its use of involuntary euthanasia on certain children. If I recall correctly Nat Hentoff had his feathers roughed up because he discovered the Dutch were killing certain children with impunity. The evidence for Dutch implementation of involuntary euthanasia is overwhelming, and the Dutch government is well aware of this fact. I could go on with much much more evidence to nail this issue down, but unfortunately I have not much more time to devote to it. >You assume that you are correct in order to prove that you are correct. How interesting. The whole debate is whether or not human life is cheapened by aborting a fetus< Because there is no way you can intelligently divorce yourself from that human fetus, pezz. This is the point. You may have your own criteria, but none of them are self-evident. You have even spouted the utter lunacy that once the toe of a “fetus” leaves the mother's womb, that “fetus” automatically becomes a full human being and until that time it is nothing but a bunch of nail clippings. I do not think everyone with power to kill will agree with this barbaric superstition of yours. You claim you embrace this stupidity because you must “draw the line” somewhere. So you just close your friggin eyes and draw it, letting the chips fall where they may. This is sooooooo dang barbaric. Other folks draw lines too, pezz. And they will not always draw them where you draw them. The truth is pezz, you pro-aborts have searched for a true place to draw the line, and not finding it have declared yourselves God. The truth is pezz, if you don't see a line already before you, you then should keep your hands to your self. The truth is pezz, at this juncture there ain't no friggin' line. It does not exist, and so you can talk about brain waves and “thinking” and heartbeats and clumps of cells and nail clippings till you rot. All this meaningless drivel will still not be enough to objectively remove yourself from the “fetus” you so desperately want to dehumanise. You too are a clump of cells. The fact is, that little fetus is you and me. We are all, right along with it, on the same dang journey – struggling for self-actualisation. It ought to live for our sake.