Subject: Intel
uncle,
Here are the timna links on the Intel thread discussing this and other related issues around the beginning of June.
Barry
Reply #0, Date: Jun 14 1999 5:49PM
RE: <Ten, Hence there should be no argument behind the decision for Timna to support DRDRAM. Let's take the argument a little further. Using the same logic, we should start seeing Caminos with DRDRAM really soon. Scumbria> My bet is that...... (351 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #0, Date: Jun 14 1999 2:16PM
Ten, Hence there should be no argument behind the decision for Timna to support DRDRAM. Let's take the argument a little further. Using the same logic, we should start seeing Caminos with DRDRAM really soon. Scumbria ...............
Subject: Intel
Reply #0, Date: Jun 14 1999 2:14PM
Hence there should be no argument behind the decision for Timna to support DRDRAM. Tenchusatsu ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #0, Date: Jun 14 1999 10:13AM
Paul H, Good question. On low-end consumer devices, I'm seeing lots of non-Intel chips, i.e. Hitachi, etc. I believe Intel didn't have a low-end chip until it picked up Dec's StrongARM technology? Moving forward, design wins take a bit of...... (159 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #0, Date: Jun 14 1999 3:13AM
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Subject: Intel
Reply #0, Date: Jun 13 1999 9:45PM
Tench - RE: "C. The long-term viability of DRDRAM in all of Intel's product lines, from sub-$1000 (Timna) to SMP enterprise server (Xeon/Carmel, among others)?" I know you have read my posts lately about DRDRAM, and therefore you should remember...... (228 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #0, Date: Jun 13 1999 11:20AM
Tenchusatsu, Is it fair to assume that for a Timna-class sub-$200 PC would use 256 Mb (32 MB) or 512Mb (64MB) RDRAM? Do you expect 256 and 512Mb RDRAM chips to exist in Yr2000 and Yr2001. If so, what do your estimate the premium would be for this...... (34 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #0, Date: Jun 13 1999 10:27AM
Ten, Wow, only a $124 premium for 128 MB of DRDRAM compared to PC100 SDRAM? Some people spend more to get a SCSI hard drive over an ATA drive This sort of price difference obviously is impractical for Timna type products. Hopefully......... (121 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #0, Date: Jun 13 1999 4:23AM
Cirrus, you forgot about: C. The long-term viability of DRDRAM in all of Intel's product lines, from sub-$1000 (Timna) to SMP enterprise server (Xeon/Carmel, among others)? One........ (348 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #0, Date: Jun 10 1999 1:49AM
RE: "Microsoft's (MSFT: news, msgs) vision for the next 25 years is to "give people and organizations the ability to do what they want, where and when they want on any device connected to the Internet," Barry, I remember when Bill Gates........... (481 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #83043, Date: Jun 8 1999 12:13AM
Meathead - Re: "Why would Timna need a processor (FSB) bus? " The CPU needs a CLOCK - and the FSB (Front Side Bus) is sometimes used to refer to THIS CLOCK - The CLOCK input to the CPU - which is then multiplied internally inside the CPU............ (366 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #83041, Date: Jun 7 1999 11:53PM
Timna has no processor bus (FSB). The article is wrong. Timna will have two interfaces to the outside world. The first....... (312 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #83037, Date: Jun 7 1999 10:25PM
Re: "Why would Timna need a processor (FSB) bus? With this level of integration, all Timna needs is Hublink for ICH interface." You're right! No FSB EP ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #83035, Date: Jun 7 1999 9:55PM
Re: the low-end Coppermine and the Timna will use a 100-MHz processor bus, but one source said a 133-MHz bus interface has not been ruled out. Why would Timna need a processor (FSB) bus? With this level of integration, all Timna needs is............ (41 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #83006, Date: Jun 7 1999 12:01PM
Amy - Re: "Was the Q3-2000 date for: FCS or samples?" The report didn't say, but my guess is that Intel will be in production before that date - possibly well before that date. In fact, Intel is much further along with the Timna Design than........ (195 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82977, Date: Jun 7 1999 7:51AM
Hi Paul, RE: Timna in Q3-2000 Was the Q3-2000 date for: FCS or samples? Thanks, Amy J ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82965, Date: Jun 7 1999 2:44AM
Paul, Glaskowsky said he expects the Timna core to run at about 667 MHz, integrating a 300-megapixel rendering core named Capitola, which is expected to ship in the third quarter of this year as a stand-alone product. How will this........... (77 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82964, Date: Jun 7 1999 2:31AM
PB & Intel Investors - Timna PC-On-A-Chip at 667 MHz ? The following article mentions that Timna may appear at 667 MHz next year - built on the 0.18 micron process. Glaskowsky said he expects the Timna core to run at about 667 MHz,............... (2952 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82526, Date: Jun 2 1999 4:23PM
Only now did I find out about the published info on Timna supporting RDRAM. I was away on vacation over the............. (481 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82523, Date: Jun 2 1999 3:47PM
Thanks for the compliment. Would you agree that based on the information published yesterday on Timna, its design takes advantage of Rambus best qualities. To me those are: 1) Low pin count enables RAC incorporated in processor. 2) No FSB...... (288 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82319, Date: Jun 1 1999 1:09PM
PB - Re: "The Register Reports on Timna. You beat them to it by, what, about 9 months?" I first posted on Timna in December of last year - so that makes it about 6 months ! I think I iniitially haad the spelling wrong, however - but I was real........ (164 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82291, Date: Jun 1 1999 11:35AM
Paul, Is this the PCOAC? It may be, but my suspicion is that Timna performance will be much higher, given that National has never demonstrated a core competitive with a 500 MHz PII. I also doubt that the National chip has 3D................. (24 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82289, Date: Jun 1 1999 10:27AM
Scumbria, Scumbria, Scumbria.... Is this the PCOAC? RE:"PB, Whatdaya think Mr. S.? I don't see any serious competition for Timna coming from anywhere else, and I expect that it will dominate the entry level PC.............. (2040 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82285, Date: Jun 1 1999 9:48AM
PB, Whatdaya think Mr. S.? I don't see any serious competition for Timna coming from anywhere else, and I expect that it will dominate the entry level PC market. The only possibility for competition would come from National, so my......... (44 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82282, Date: Jun 1 1999 7:04AM
Scumbria - Register reports more Timna Details, including graphics accelerator. Whatdaya think Mr. S.? theregister.co.uk ====================================================================== Posted 01/06/99.......... (2046 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82280, Date: Jun 1 1999 5:04AM
Paul - The Register Reports on Timna. theregister.co.uk You beat them to it by, what, about 9 months? PB ====================================================================== Posted 01/06/99 9:41am by.......... (1613 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82263, Date: Jun 1 1999 12:12AM
Re: Dram latency is very important for performance. One advantage for drdram can be that the smaller pin count makes it easier to connect directly to......... (267 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82234, Date: May 31 1999 3:26PM
SCUMbria - Re: ". Timna won't compete against K7, but it may be tough to beat in the $200 PC market." Isn't the $200 PC the K7 target market? Paul ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82217, Date: May 31 1999 10:57AM
RE:"1000MHz Pentium III Are you joking?"... No, I expect Intel to be at 1000 Mhz at the end of 2000, when the Timna is due, if ever. ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82214, Date: May 31 1999 2:26AM
Re: "Maybe Timna will be the K7 killer ! " Paul, Good one! LOL! Amy J ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82213, Date: May 31 1999 2:20AM
Paul, Maybe Timna will be the K7 killer ! The performance benefits I described for integrated CPU/graphics only apply to a unified memory system, which is by definition a low cost/performance graphics solution for a PC. Timna won't......... (94 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82184, Date: May 30 1999 10:14PM
SCUMbria - Re: "The raw latency will only improve by a very small amount, but the average latency can be improved by precharging/opening banks early." Maybe Timna will be the K7 killer ! Paul ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82173, Date: May 30 1999 8:46PM
McMannis - Re: "A 500 MHz Timna vs a 1000MHz Pentium III doesn't sound too good. " No it doesn't. How about a 550 Mhz Timna ? Paul ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82172, Date: May 30 1999 8:45PM
Paul, However, my intuition is telling me that Intel will be moving the DRDRAM controller on to the CPU in the very near future - as indicated in the upcoming Timna. Then, your suggestion will work. This will achieve the reduced latency and........ (413 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82169, Date: May 30 1999 8:34PM
Kash - Re: "Having 800Mhz signal wandering all over the board creates major problems in design/manufacturing and quality. I am sure the problems will be solved but it may well take 3-6 months." As I stated, I believe all these problems have............ (589 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82151, Date: May 30 1999 5:47PM
RE:"How does a 500 MHz Timna sound "... A 500 MHz Timna vs a 1000MHz Pentium III doesn't sound too good. ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82116, Date: May 30 1999 2:07AM
Paul, I also appreciate your info re Timna. Could you utilize your special insight to compare Timna technology to what would be your view of the mid-2000 $2-3k desktop? Would that be the Willamette? Barry ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82110, Date: May 30 1999 1:20AM
PB - Re: "- Excellent Timna post Paul, IMHO. " Thank you - glad you liked it. Paul ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82106, Date: May 30 1999 1:16AM
Paul - Excellent Timna post Paul, IMHO. EOM. ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82100, Date: May 30 1999 12:08AM
KZNerd - Re: "I don't know what the die size for Timna is but I'm sure that only Intel has the manufacturing to pull it off. Also, this is a way to shift the product cost away from packaging and back toward silicon." The die size should be big,........ (142 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82095, Date: May 29 1999 11:27PM
Re: Yes, I think this is the reasoning for Timna. It raises the bar for a minimum CPU in PCs. Anyone who wants............. (463 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82089, Date: May 29 1999 10:11PM
SCUMbria - Re: "In the time frame of Timna's launch, it should get about $30-$50" Sure SCUMMybria, Sure. You keep telling yourself that. Paul ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82080, Date: May 29 1999 7:57PM
Paul, How does a 500 MHz Timna sound ? That should get more money than any CPU AMonkeyD sells for. In the time frame of Timna's launch, it should get about $30-$50. Scumbria ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82078, Date: May 29 1999 7:31PM
Jimbo - Re: "No but they will look at MegaHertz. That's why these machines will lack Intel size profits." So? Do you know anybody that delivers more MHz than Intel ? How does a 500 MHz Timna sound ? That should get more money than any......... (37 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82076, Date: May 29 1999 7:22PM
SCUMbria - Re: "Closer to $30 than $130. " Sorry, SCUMbria. We're talking Intel's Timna, not the AMD Kmart 62. Paul ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82072, Date: May 29 1999 7:06PM
Paul, If the TIMNA replaces a $100 CPU and $25 graphics chip and $30 chip set with a $130 PCOAC CPU, then Intel wins as well as their customers. Closer to $30 than $130. Scumbria ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82071, Date: May 29 1999 7:03PM
Jacques - re: "Might this alienate Intel's current clients, the Dells, IBMs, Compaq's and Gateways of the world? After all, if there is nothing left to sell WITH the chip, how will the box makers claim they add value..." Except for Dell, every......... (376 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82062, Date: May 29 1999 4:03PM
Re: Timna Hi Paul, Thanks for taking the time to write this. Very interesting. Amy J ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82060, Date: May 29 1999 3:14PM
Paul and Intel Investors, RE:"Thus, Timna will prove out the concept of a nearly FULL PC on a chip" A few questions/comments: 1. Where does one plug in the monitor and keyboard? I noticed from the new ads that the new Pentium III has several....... (677 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82055, Date: May 29 1999 2:30PM
Paul - RE: "Thus, Timna will prove out the concept of a nearly FULL PC on a chip" Are the designers working with the P6 core, or a new core? ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82053, Date: May 29 1999 1:56PM
Jim - Re: "Do you really think that the Timna is something Intel should pursue? Look what happened to NSMs PCOAC. Vaporware and if and when it appears it will be in the "MHz loser" category and be relegated to the no profit low end. " The short........ (4106 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82051, Date: May 29 1999 1:08PM
RE:"If Tom knew what I knew, he wouldn't have to keep his day job."... Do you really think that the Timna is something Intel should pursue? Look what happened to NSMs PCOAC. Vaporware and if and when it appears it will be in the "MHz loser"........... (62 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82047, Date: May 29 1999 12:35PM
From EETimes... "The best the Timna could be is a next-generation Celeron core with Capitola graphics," he said. "I give it a less than 50 percent chance that it will ever be released." I wouldn't even give it a 50% chance of being.................. (24 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82046, Date: May 29 1999 12:30PM
Pauly, RE:"Timna is MUCH FURTHER ALONG than the EETIMES - and even I - knew." Oh really... I'm sure Tom would like to hear that, his page says late 2000. sysdoc.pair.com Jim ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82045, Date: May 29 1999 12:24PM
McPanic - Re: "I hear Timna isn't due until the end of 2000. They are hyping it already? 19 months in advance?" Sorry. Timna is MUCH FURTHER ALONG than the EETIMES - and even I - knew. Look for Timna in early to mid-2000 - perhaps................ (19 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82043, Date: May 29 1999 12:18PM
RE:""Intel is now hyping : Non-existent Merced Non-existent Willamette Non-existent Timna" I hear Timna isn't due until the end of 2000. They are hyping it already? 19 months in advance? Jim ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82041, Date: May 29 1999 12:12PM
SCUMbria - Re: "Intel is now hyping : Non-existent Merced Non-existent Willamette Non-existent Timna Non-existent Camino/DRDRAM Quite a line up of vaporware!!" We'll add those to the non-existent Kmart 63 and the Kslop 7 that you have....... (29 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82039, Date: May 29 1999 11:57AM
Barry - Re: "TIMNA eetimes.com Now that the market segment has been identified and that RAMBUS will be a part of it, what do you think of this development?" Last week I mentioned that TIMNA would be a late year...... (648 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82033, Date: May 29 1999 10:12AM
Scumbria, "Intel is now hyping : Non-existent Merced Non-existent Willamette Non-existent Timna Non-existent Camino/DRDRAM Quite a line up of vaporware!!" A lot of people on this board may not have....... (519 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82031, Date: May 29 1999 9:55AM
Barry, So glad you enjoy reading about these things. I spend half of my life living these things. Anyway, I challenge the thread to come up with an explanation of this bizarre comment from the article: Despite the board-design......... (292 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #82023, Date: May 29 1999 2:32AM
Barry, Intel is now hyping : Non-existent Merced Non-existent Willamette Non-existent Timna Non-existent Camino/DRDRAM Quite a line up of vaporware!! Scumbria ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #82021, Date: May 29 1999 2:21AM
Paul, Re: TIMNA eetimes.com Now that the market segment has been identified and that RAMBUS will be a part of it, what do you think of this development? Looks like the low end is going to get a mighty........ (70 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #81990, Date: May 28 1999 8:33PM
Daily news for semiconductor industry managers Intel ties upcoming PC-on-a-chip to Rambus A service of Semiconductor Business News, CMP Media Inc. Story posted 4:15 p.m. EST/1:15......... (11191 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #81958, Date: May 28 1999 2:43PM
Intel ties upcoming PC-on-a-chip to Rambus By Mark Carroll and Will Wade EE Times (05/28/99, 2:12 p.m. EDT) TAIPEI, Taiwan - Intel Corp. will take a crack at putting a PC-on-a-chip late next year. The so-called Timna processor, manufactured........ (8728 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #81829, Date: May 27 1999 6:00PM
Scumbria - < lots of competitors who are perfectly content to sell CPUs for $100.> Lots? AMD, Centaur, Rise. That's 3. Oh yeah, that Russian outfit is going to compete in the 64bit space. 4. Rise is willing to sell for $30 when it costs.......... (149 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #81390, Date: May 23 1999 6:31PM
Barry - Re: "TIMNA - I presume the chipset will be RAMBUS enabled. Correct?" Actually, I would assume not. Cheaper SDRAM would be my guess - but that is just a guess. Re: "What market do you think will be targeted by this 2000-2001.............. (170 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #81388, Date: May 23 1999 5:37PM
Barry, RE: "Timna is Intel's single chip PCOAC - CPU/Graphics/Audio/ChipSet - all on one chunk of silicon. What market do you think will be targeted by this 2000-2001 chip?" Barry, based upon the description, possibly STB/IA markets. Right......... (856 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #81383, Date: May 23 1999 3:55PM
Paul, Thanks. TIMNA - I presume the chipset will be RAMBUS enabled. Correct? What market do you think will be targeted by this 2000-2001 chip? Barry ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #81381, Date: May 23 1999 3:42PM
Barry - Re: "Anyone know what Timba is? Paul?" He probably meant TIMNA. Timna is Intel's single chip PCOAC - CPU/Graphics/Audio/ChipSet - all on one chunk of silicon. It is being designed by one of the Israeli CPU design teams. I expect....... (92 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #81375, Date: May 23 1999 2:54PM
Barry, re:Timba I believe this is referring to a chip codenamed Timna. Paul E. knows more about this than I (know from previous posts). Paul, can you update? Thanks much, Greg. ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #81289, Date: May 20 1999 11:04PM
Tony - Re: "Paul, I tried to ferret the SA-1110 SOAC out of my notes to ask you about it at the lunch, but couldn't find it then. What is it? Timna???" No. The SA1110 is a 1 1/2 generation StrongARM CPU that I believe was already in design.......... (542 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #80911, Date: May 14 1999 4:16PM
DeVit - No argument. As the market and products evolve, I would expect Intel to compete...... (199 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #80453, Date: May 5 1999 5:04PM
Joseph - "I thought I understood they have strongarm up in the sleeve." I believe it does. I also understand Intel has something called Timna up its sleeve. PB ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #79269, Date: Apr 15 1999 2:48PM
Ten, Scumbria, if your prediction comes true, and $299 PC's start to dominate the market, who is going to be positioned for this shift? AMD who lost a ton of money on K6-2 and is now putting their hopes onto the high-end K7? Cyrix who's pretty...... (472 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #79267, Date: Apr 15 1999 2:41PM
Guess no one will be buying those Mustang K7's, right? Scumbria, if your prediction comes true, and $299 PC's start to dominate the market, who is going to be.............. (311 more chars)
Subject: Intel
Reply #76038, Date: Mar 10 1999 2:16PM
Ten, High-end answers: Coppermine, Cascades, Merced, Willamette Low-end answers: Whitney, Timna Any questions? Lots and lots of questions! That is what keeps this interesting. Scumbria ......................
Subject: Intel
Reply #76035, Date: Mar 10 1999 2:12PM
High-end answers: Coppermine, Cascades, Merced, Willamette Low-end answers: Whitney, Timna Any...................... (28 more chars)
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