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To: greenspirit who wrote (42983)	7/2/1999 1:13:00 AM
From: jbe	Respond to of 108807

Michael, you make some good points. I would agree that there are many more (and much more creditable) emotions, values, and motives involved in economic activity in general than just the "greed" and "fear" that drive stock markets in particular. And there is such a thing as "business ethics," which some cynics would call an oxymoron. And so forth. What troubles me about your argument here is that you seem to think that only "religious" people have "morals" or "ethics." That is implied by phrases such as the following (emphasis mine): The higher the faith, and the higher a society holds to the principles of honesty, integrity, decency, and conscientousness, the better will its free markets flourish. Personally, I cannot accept the link you make between "faith" on the one hand and honesty, integrity, etc. on the other. And my observation of life suggests to me that people without a common religious belief are quite capable of agreeing on a common civic ethic. Joan

To: greenspirit who wrote (42983)	7/2/1999 2:14:00 AM
From: nihil	Respond to of 108807

"Valujet airlines as an example. When one of their planes crashed in the Everglades, the airline collapsed. Why? I believe it was because people lost faith because it was widely perceived that the accident was a symptom of a much deeper carelessness and lack of regard to the values people hold dear. There was a major loss of faith and the marketplace responded. When investors lose faith in currency, a business, or a bank, disaster strikes." That's why government regulation and guarantees are essential to the survival of capitalistic institutions. The deeply religious Russia was willing to abandon a growing successful capitalism because of the the corruption of the regime, the incompetence of the government. The somewhat less religious US in the 1930's was ready to adopt the New Deal because of the bankruptcy of capitalistic economics. Valujet is a good example of a competently run enterprise abandoned by hysterial frightened sheep. The villain of the piece, of course, was its supplier of maintenance Sabretech. Which lied, and chiseled as almost every competitively procured supplier (who "buys in" must. I don't mean to mock your profession, but if your management of quality depends on your judgment of the religious beliefs of your suppliers, I pity your employer's insurance carriers. How does one engage in quality assurance these days?

To: greenspirit who wrote (42983)	7/2/1999 7:36:00 AM
From: Father Terrence	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Fear drove people from ValuJet, despite what jbe says. The basic motivations of all human action and interaction is fear and greed. They can sometimes be very subtle, but they are always present. Ethics do not require either religion or a mystic spirituality. On the contrary, good capitalism is not driven by mysticism, but objectivity. FT

To: greenspirit who wrote (42983)	7/2/1999 8:56:00 AM
From: Brumar89	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

If free markets were assisted by a belief in atheistic principles, why isn't there a country without a spiritual center taking over worldwide commerce? Though they aren't "taking over worldwide commerce" (no one is), Germany and Japan have performed quite well economically over the last half century despite being largely secular, unreligious countries. And why has America, with its deeply religios roots, performed so well economically? There are many factors involved in economic success, but I think a nations legal/regulatory system regarding commerce, contracts, and property is most important. All of commerce and consequently much of human freedom depends on honest transactions conducted in good faith. Without the belief in honesty and reliability, free markets will soon collapse, and be replaced by socialistic dictators. With no faith there is no commerce. The ethical values of Judeo-Christian principles allowed America to flourish because faith was high. We believed in the ethical nature of our government currency, in eachother, and in our future. Faith or confidence in the integrity of others, where it is deserved, is a good thing in economic affairs, but such faith in one's fellow citizens isn't at all enough. What's needed is a legal system in which contracts and laws governing business affairs can be enforced. Bruce