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Strategies & Market Trends : India Coffee House -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Shivram Hala who wrote (4995)	7/8/1999 8:48:00 PM
From: sea_biscuit	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 12475

The vocal minority don't dominate the scene in india Maybe that's why a few hundred thousand bank employees can hold the country to ransom? Or a few million public sector workers and government workers can force the government to keep hiking their wages for doing nothing? Read Sartaj Aziz's comments on a recent ineterview with the BBC ("Nuclear weapons for pakistan is a deterrent to india's superiority in a conventional warfare.") That's why pakistan refuses to sign the no-first use doctrine. And that's a startling "revelation"?! Of course, India has a decided edge over Pakistan when it comes to conventional weapons. And of course, Pakistan refused to sign the no-first use doctrine! NATO did the same too -- when they were outnumbered by the Warsaw Pact almost 4 to 1 in tanks, 3 to 1 in ground troops, and 2 to 1 in fighter aircraft. They adopted a doctrine wherein they would use nuclear weapons first if their security was seriously threatened. Which is the obvious and logical choice for a country that is at a disadvantage when it comes to conventional warfare. From what you say pakistan thinks it is at the top of the world because it has nuclear weapons. I don't know what Pakistan thinks. But what we have to understand is that Pakistan need no longer be afraid of any really serious conventional weapons strike by India (like a full-scale invasion of the PoK, for instance). I'm proud of what indians have achieved in the 50 years since independence but what has pakistan to show for that. Oh, really? And why do you have to bring Pakistan's name? Want to shine by contrast? Well, I am sorry to say that you don't succeed even there! Here are some numbers: > Human Development Index Rank, 1996: Pakistan 134, India > 135 (out of 174). 1998 -- Pakistan: 138 India: 139 (out of 174) > Real GDP per capita, 1993: Pakistan $ 2,160; India $ > 1,240; all Developing Countries $ 2709. 1998 -- Pakistan: $ 2209 India: $ 1422 All DCs: $ 3068 > Adult Literacy rate, 1993: Pakistan 36 per cent, India > 51per cent, all DCs 61 per cent. 1998 -- Pakistan: 37.8% India: 52% All DCs: 70.44% > Underweight children under age 5, 1995: Pakistan 40, > India 53, all DCs 30. > Primary school pupil-teacher ratio, 1992: Pakistan 41, > India 46, all DCs 33. > (All data from the UNDP Human Development Report, 1996 & 1998). While on that topic maybe we should talk about what pakistan has achieved. Maybe instead of venting your venom, and drowning yourself in your anti-indian tirade you could berate pakistanis on their lack of achievements, I have said that the entire subcontinent -- India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan -- lives in misery. It is not just an opinion. That's the fact. The numbers say it. The visuals prove it. And a visit to that region confirms it beyond any shadow of doubt. The conditions are so awful that even many countries of Africa are better off. And India is the largest country in that region, accounting for something like 75 plus percent of the population as well as area. Now, that should tell you something, no?! Nuclear blackmail did'nt do any good and in fact it dented the credibility of pakistan. Yeah, we'll see about that! Mere condemnations aren't going to be good enough. And unless the Western nations level the playing field vis-a-vis conventional weaponry, things can be dangerous. The coming years will show you how badly India has miscalculated the whole thing by indulging in nuclear "Diwali" in Pokhran in 1998. " So, unlike 1965, India can no longer cross over to PoK and "punish" Pakistan. " Punish Pakistan ? We humiliated pakistan. Remember 92,000 pakistan prisoners and the begging bowls. Well, fond memories are all you can cling on to now. That was then, and this is now! India cannot cross over to PoK without seriously exacerbating the situation and endangering itself. Forget about ever getting back PoK. It's as good as gone. " the "Hey, we'll nuke them and destroy them, so what's there to worry?" variety. " Again, the net is not the world. But if your perfectly happy with accepting what they say as official indian policy you are welcome. Well, the official Indian policy is not even as "coherent" as "we'll nuke them bastards!". It is saying one thing today and then denying it tomorrow, or retracting it, or claiming that it was quoted out of context, or misquoted, and then moving on to the next SNAFU! <G> More later...

To: Shivram Hala who wrote (4995)	7/8/1999 10:17:00 PM
From: sea_biscuit	Respond to of 12475

No, I think india should open up it's economy even more to other countries. That brings competition, which brings better goods. It doesn't mean that indian companies will be replaced by foreign companies ... However, it doesn't mean that Indian companies won't be replaced by foreign companies either. And that should be enough to bring specters of "foreign rule" and cries of "It's the comeback of the East India company!!!!" by the "swadeshi" zealots, RSS nutcases and sundry sadhus and swamijis who hold the strings right now. Of course I'n proud of what india has achieved in the last 50 years. What it now has is a well trained and large scientific and technological base. Well, you can keep getting "proud" ad nauseam. But what you can't find is one, just one, product from these "well-trained and large scientific and technological base" that has changed the average Indian's life for the better. (Of course, you might say, "How about the 'low-cost' bullock cart designed by IIT/IIM/IISc or whoever?". Well, that doesn't count, cuz a farmer would have to sell both his Marutis to afford one of them "low cost" bullock carts! <G>). We don't have to rely on other countries unlike pakistan which needs to purchase even paperclips. :) Go take a look at Indian companies that make polythene jars, for instance. They have "technical collaboration" with (i.e. they pay money to) a foreign company. Or for that matter, a company that makes toy cars (forget about real cars). Again, in "technical collaboration" with a foreign company like Hasbro. So much for the "we don't have to rely on other countries" rhetoric! The reality is that an Indian company can't even make a half-way decent can-opener without entering into "technical collaboration" with a Western company! And why this obsession with Pakistan? All the countries of the Indian subcontinent live in abject poverty, but there is just one country (India) that yearns for a halo of being a "technologically developed" nation. And yet, when we get to the nitty gritty, pat comes the comparison to Pakistan! All too predictable. AFter 74 much of the achievements came WITHOUT assistance from the west. In recent years, much of the assistance has come from unemployed nuclear and missile scientists from Russia. Not much different from whatever assistance Pakistan has received (for free) from China. If the Indians want to really claim self-reliance, they should demonstrate it in some area where hype is of no use, but real results and efficiency are -- like building roads. But then, that is easier said than done. Better to be doing something in some murky defense project where cost and efficiency are no factor, and even failures can be easily concealed under the cloak of "national security"!

To: Shivram Hala who wrote (4995)	7/8/1999 11:46:00 PM
From: sea_biscuit	Respond to of 12475

For a country that is at the brink of financial disaster (come end of july without western aid pakistan will default) it's either humiliation or self destruction. Really? If only things were that simple! <G> Take a look at the following article. "Ex-ISI chief wants Pakistan to sell nuclear know-how." timesofindia.com This is what he says: "If the United States puts economic pressure we should declare moratorium on loan repayments....If the IMF and the World Bank have no compunction in economically drowning the nation of 14 crores then we must make it very clear that we will pay our debts and solve our economic problems by selling nuclear technology." As P.G. Wodehouse would say, "Wheels within wheels within wheels", huh?! Will the sadhus and the swamijis ever get it?! The West will have no choice but to level the playing ground for Pakistan. Also, there will be intense pressure on India (after all, India is a big-time borrower too, the third or the fourth largest borrower in the world) to open the issue for mediation by the UN or the US. Pakistan wanted to internationalize the Kashmir issue, and thanks largely to India for playing nuclear "Diwali" and raising tensions in the region, it has succeeded in that. That is the reality of the situation. And there's nothing that the NRI fundies or the "Hindutvawadis" or the sundry sadhus and the swamijis can do to change that.