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To: DoubleOddBuck who wrote (1834)	7/9/1999 1:58:00 AM
From: Laurens	Respond to of 2513

Those "seven sisters" - or how many potent oil/gas barons are there today? - would have big clout . But as you say, they could not hold up new cheap and clean tech powersources for long. I guess the coffers of middle eastern potentates are filled for generations to come, but it is sad that some big oilproducing countries like Nigeria have never really used the immense oil profits for the benefit of their 100 million inhabitants, when their big smokepipes are dimmed. In any case, oil and gas are finite. I think your 2 cents are worth a shining nickle!

To: DoubleOddBuck who wrote (1834)	7/9/1999 9:14:00 AM
From: wpckr	Respond to of 2513

Thanks for the very thoughtful response. I have the concern in my mind that the Arabs really do not want to be relegated to permanent "desert rat" status. Therefore, shouldn't we expect those people to have in place some means by which they can attempt to hold the world at ransome?

To: DoubleOddBuck who wrote (1834)	7/9/1999 9:42:00 AM
From: Scoobah	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 2513

Welcome all back to the thread, here's another, <http://www.herald.com/content/wed/docs/001154.htm> Getting energy from fossil fuels in a large central plant is very inefficient. By the time the power arrives at a home or business, only 29 percent of the original energy in that coal or oil remains. Fuel cells boast 40 percent efficiency and microturbines get around 20 to 30 percent. But what makes both technologies pay off is that they are married to cogeneration. Cogeneration is the reuse of the generator's byproduct -- clean hot water -- to heat buildings, clear sidewalks and for other industrial uses. That brings efficiency up to the 80 percent range

To: DoubleOddBuck who wrote (1834)	7/9/1999 10:54:00 PM
From: Rickmas	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 2513

DoubleOddBuck & wpkr, The hydrogen interests are playing Tom Sawyer: getting the natural gas kids to paint the fence. For the hydrogen economy to come about, it requires a bridge from petroleum use. This bridge is natural gas. The abundant North American supplies of natural gas are underutilized. This is creating a market opportunity for stationary/residential fuel cells fed by cheap natural gas. Natural gas can be mixed with pure hydrogen. Systems that operate on natural gas can be easily modified to accept this mixture. Both vehicles, residential fuel cells, and even Sid's big MCFSs will run even more efficiently as the hydrogen percentage increases. Hydrogen will gradually become more available and affordable as renewable systems are implemented and optimized over the coming decades. We may have fifty years to effect the change to hydrogen, thanks to natural gas. OPEC will begin the Great Squeeze within the next few years. This will add a feeling of necessity to the public's present mixed perceptions. I believe the opportunities we are seeing in this field represent the birth of a dominant future distributed energy infrastructure that is totally secure from the machinations of foreign energy suppliers. -- Rickmas