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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (44647)	7/9/1999 9:42:00 AM
From: jbe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Who is blaming men, Blue? All I have said is that historically, the female drive to achieve has been hobbled both by biology and by society. I don't see how you can argue with that. Bearing babies and raising children DOES slow one down, even when one's own society has not confined one exclusively to that field, as most have. One's creative energies (if one has them in the first place) are at least partially re-channelled into the child(ren). As for society's attitudes, just take a look at the legal restrictions on women's activities throughout the history of civilization. I think you need to wait a while before you can expect to see that much female achievement in traditionally male spheres. Women have been less frowned upon in literature (although don't forget that Georges Sand and George Eliot used male pseudonyms for a REASON). This has been especially true in poetry. In American poetry, for example, Emily Dickinson is on a par with Walt Whitman. In 20th century Russian poetry, Anna Akhmadova and Marina Tsvetayeva are usually placed at the very top of the list -- ahead of Boris Pasternak and Vladimir Mayakovsky. And so on. Joan

To: Ilaine who wrote (44647)	7/9/1999 1:36:00 PM
From: nihil	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Women are going to accomplish more in the future than ever before. There must have been some reason for the exclusion of women from selective educational institutions. If they were incompetent, they would have been washed out. My experience was that female graduate students in the 1950's and 1960's were supersmart, overqualified, and held back by parental attitudes. The best student at Duke economics was forced to stop at a MA because her parents feared she wouldn't be able to get a husband. The best grad student at Berkeley economics was denied a fellowship because the male faculty thought she would marry and drop out before she got her Ph.D. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Today nearly all the brilliant students I meet have great ambition, understand the problems, and won't give up to artificual obstacles. In addition, many of them understand how manipulate their environment (the faculty) very well. Many women faculty members mentor each other and the women students and there is in most universities a fierce feminist mafia that protects women against real and imagined discrimination. Women no longer need to exercise their ambition solely through their mates. With brilliant ambitious women concentrating on building their own careers instead of being restricted to pushing their husbands, there are already many obsessed driven supercompetent women moving rapidly to the top of their professions -- especially in art and music and science. Look at any symphony orchestra or art exhibit or names on articles in science journals.