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To: Alex who wrote (36935)	7/10/1999 4:19:00 AM
From: d:oug	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116753

Alex, I vote this post of yours as the best, #1 of all posts to touch on the reason that created a need for GATA. MONEY and POWER, to be obtained by those unable to create wealth or rise to a position of power when done so on a level playing field. There is one additional reason I should add to the above, and it has a really bad smell and repulsive nature, so I will be brief. There are some people that are in a position to make decisions that are very big in consequence, and most of these persons are decent law abiding and church going, but with a most serious flaw of the nature of coward or shortsighted or easily to be con'ed by bad people, and being unable in nature to be honest and fair. Most are not really bad people, but they cause trouble and leave a mess behind that is hard to clean up. Its their nature or weakness in character that has to be pointed to, as they are really unable to change. A simple example is Bill Clinton, the President of USA, who can lie to the American people with a clear conscience, because he really really does not see what he does as a lie, but only a form of self defence for survival. When you see Bill Clinton apology and ask for forgivness for his "lieing", he is only doing what is necessary to push away the issue, it is not what he holds as whats real. But the most vile of persons to me is connected to the article in your very important post. It is those persons inside the mechanism of that which controls the supply and movement of gold who go along with the bad persons doing the damage as per GATA, and they are part of the problem without trying to obtain money or power, but thru fear and cowardness they help those do the deeds they know are wrong. Their punishment is automatic, as from the point they help the criminals they have a burden of guilt to carry, forever. doug

To: Alex who wrote (36935)	7/10/1999 9:26:00 AM
From: Rarebird	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116753

A Few Words From Nostradamus: DID NOSTRADAMUS PREDICT GLOBAL FINANCIAL MELTDOWN? Nostradamus, or Michel de Nostredame, published the first part of his prophecies at Lyon in 1555. The complete set, in the form of a letter to his son, 965 quatrains (verses of 4 lines), one quatrain in Latin, 141 présages and 58 sixains (verses of 6 lines), and a letter to Henri, King of France, was available by 1557. The prophecies have never since been out of print. Dr. Max de Fontbrune (father of Jean-Charles de Fontbrune) published a translation and critique of Nostradamus in 1938, which included descriptions of the German advance through Belgium to invade France, Germany's loss of the war, and Hitler's demise. As a result, the book was confiscated and withdrawn from every bookshop in France and Dr Max de Fontbrune was hounded by the Gestapo. The censor stated, in 1940: "... in all versions of this work Dr de Fontbrune's commentary risks provoking severe reaction from the occupying authorities". Nostradamus was born on December 14, 1503. His family had converted from Judaism to Catholicism in 1501 after an edict of Louis XII which forced all Jews to become Catholics or leave Provence. Nostradamus studied medicine at Montpelier, obtaining a baccalauréat and a license to practice medicine by the Bishop of Montpelier in 1525. In 1529 or 30, Nostradamus attained the Doctorate of medicine at Montpelier. For more biographical information, see "The Further Prophecies of Nostradamus", Erika Cheetham, Corgi, 1985, reprinted 1989, ISBN 0 552 12299 8. These following few verses are excerpted from Jean-Charles de Fontbrune's book, Nostradamus 1: Countdown to Apocalypse, Pan Books, 1984. ISBN 0 330 28062 7. Current events make these verses stand out in a remarkable way, I think you will find. The quatrain in Old French is presented first (references such as "CIII, Q27" mean Century III, i.e. the third collection of verses, Quatrain 27), then the English interpretation by de Fontbrune, then my additional comments on possible interpretations linked to current events. These are perhaps best thought of as "what ifs", to reflect on potential outcomes depending on how forthcoming events are managed. Des Roys et princes dresseront simulachres, Augures, creux eslevez aruspices: Corne victime dorée, et d'azur, d'acres Interpretez seront les exstipices. CIII,Q26 The heads of states and governments will fabricate imitations [of gold: excess of paper money]; prophets will make forecasts devoid of sense [speeches of politicians and economists]. The horn of plenty [consumer society] will fall victim to them and violence will follow peace. The prophecies will be fulfilled. Fiat money- pale imitations of "real money"- abounds; no longer constrained by the requirement for gold backing, the heads of state can print as much money as they wish and fund economies through sales of government bonds. As Alan Greenspan once said, "In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation". Politicians will be forced to make optimistic speeches to talk up the economy, and bull-market proponents will continue to predict stock market recovery as the nascent bear market continues to make lower highs. As economic prosperity decays for many, as in East Asia, things start to turn nasty... Le grand crédit, d'or d'argent l'abondance Aveuglera par libide l'honneur: Cogneu sera l'adultère l'offence, Qui parviendra a son grand deshoneur. CVIII,Q14 The importance of credit and the abundance of gold and silver will blind men greedy for honour. The offence of deception will be known by him who attains his own great dishonour. Mountains of consumer debt, government bond financing, and great apparent prosperity as symbolised by gold and silver (or could this be a reference to the flood of Central Bank gold sales and loans for short selling that discredits gold as a store of value and keeps faith in debt instruments such as the fiat-currency dollar and government bonds as safe havens) supports confidence in personal advancement in the "new economic paradigm" of low inflation, sound economic fundamentals, and bull-market advocacy. Meanwhile, someone is accused of dishonourable acts and deception- now who could that be? Les simulachres d'or et d'argent enflez, Qu'après le rapt lac au feu furent jettez, Au descouvert estaincts tous et troublez, Au marbre escripts, perscripts interjettez. CVIII, Q28 Images produced in gold and silver, victims of inflation, after the theft of prosperity, will be thrown into the fire in anger; exhausted and disturbed by the public debt paper and coin will be pulped. "Paper gold", which is to say certificated forms of gold trading, such as is carried on at the LBMA, which does not involve taking delivery of physical metal, will be tarnished by loss of confidence. This could possibly be as a result of alleged "fractional reserve gold", a re-run of the 17th century's invention of paper money as certificates against gold deposited with goldsmiths, which began to circulate as currency in its own right and ultimately tempted the goldsmiths into issuing more paper certificates than there existed gold to redeem against them. Ultimately the "Paper gold" will be devalued by investors stampeding to take delivery. Inflation will devalue ordinary paper and coin currency until it may as well be thrown on the fire. The world's greatest debtor nation is the US, as Japanese politicians have been reminding us lately. Inflation and a rise in interest rates would cause the debt service costs to skyrocket, with sovereign debt default at risk, the currency would lose its value and, if hyperinflation ensues, notes and coins would have to be reissued with zeroes lopped off, the previous issues being pulped and melted down. Alan Greenspan has just commanded a second interest rate reduction. How then could there be interest rate rises? When the markets collapse, the "missing inflation" which is hiding in money measures (i.e. M1, M2, M3), bonds, and the stock markets will be released as "real inflation". When the dollar collapses and money flows overseas, interest rates will have to go up again just as they have in parts of Asia and Latin America. Despit de règne nunismes descriés, Et seront peuples esmeus contre leur Roy: Paix, fait nouveau, sainctes loix empirées RAPIS onc fut en si tresdur arroy. CVI,Q23 Power will be despised because of the currency devaluation and the people will rebel against the head of state. Peace will be proclaimed; through a new fact, sacred laws will be corrupted. Never was Paris in such dire disarray. When markets collapse and the good times end, prosperity falls and unemployment rises, any politician in power falls out of favour, regardless of their merits. This tendency is well documented in various works on long wave economic cycles. Several heads of state have already fallen; e.g. Japan's Hashimoto, Germany's Kohl, Indonesia's Suharto. The new incumbents will claim that the turmoil has ended, but there will be new corruption and overthrow of cherished institutions, principles and traditions, such as has been asserted by some as the depredation of America's constitutional rights. Paris is often mentioned by Nostradamus as the centre of his own country, but also as a symbol for the West, caught up in the global financial turmoil. La grande poche viendra plaindre pleurer, D'avoir esleu: trompez seront en l'aage. Guière avec eux ne voudra demeurer, Deceu sera par ceux de son langage. CVII,Q35 They will complain of lost wealth and weep over choosing [responsible politicians] who will make mistakes from time to time. Very few men will want to follow them, deceived as they will be by their speeches. People whose investments have fallen in value will not want to blame impersonal market forces or long wave economic cycles- they will blame the politicians and stockbrokers who cheered on the bull market, before it turned into a bear. The smallest mistake will be siezed upon as evidence against them and on losing office they will remain discredited, their reputations tarnished for ever. Près loing defaut de deux grands luminaires, Qui surviendra entra l'Avril et Mars: O quel cherté! Mais deux grands débonnaires Par terre et mer secourront toutes pars. CIII,Q5 Shortly after the shortage of the two metals [gold and silver] which will occur between April and March, how expensive life will become! But two heads of state of noble birth will bring help by land and sea. Precious metals- which have thousands of years of history as currency- become so much in demand for investment purposes, as the ultimate 'safe haven', and the debt obligation of nobody, that to all extents and purposes their physical trading ceases. There is currently reported a shortage of bullion coins and prices rising for the popular American 'Saints' in collectors' grades. What could the bit about heads of state be about? Could 'noble birth' be a reference to European traditions; in which case this could be implying aid from Europe to America? Le parc enclin grande calamité Par l'Hesperie et Insubre fera, Le feu en nef, peste et captivité, Mercure en l'Arc Saturne fenera. CII,Q65 The economy in decline, there will be a great calamity in the West and Italy, war, disaster, and captivity will affect the Church. The time of pillage will ruin Monaco. This verse leads from the financial crisis (economy in decline) to other verses which describe the third world war between the South and the North. Southern Europe is subject to invasion from the South, including the Holy See. Monaco, symbol of financial success, suffers not only from financial decline but from invasion. A "great calamity" could mean many things, such as earthquake, breakdown of law and order, or terrorist attack. We should hope and pray that these prophecies are nothing more than an interesting resonance with current events. users.dircon.co.uk

To: Alex who wrote (36935)	7/11/1999 6:45:00 PM
From: goldsnow	Respond to of 116753

Miners Pay Price for Lackluster Gold Sunday, 11 July 1999 L O N D O N (AP) GOLD'S ANCIENT status as the ultimate store of value is fading in the West, and miners in gold-producing nations are paying the stiffest price. A global selloff of the metal, hastened by the Bank of England's auction of some of its reserves last week, has driven gold prices down to their lowest level in a generation, triggering bankruptcies and street protests in South Africa and spreading gloom from Uzbekistan to the United States. But cheaper gold has its bright side: more lavish dowries - and happier in-laws - in India and less expensive jewelry in pay-by-weight gold shops in Asia. For many of the world's poorest people, faith in the metal that British economist John Maynard Keynes dismissed as a "barbarous relic" remains strong. If prices continue to slide, unemployment and instability are likely to worsen in gold-producing countries, particularly those with older, deeper mines that are more expensive to operate. "This is the economics of the madhouse," said Haruko Fukuda of the World Gold Council, a London-based group financed by gold-mining companies. Britain's financial authorities, Fukuda said, "have lost sight of the reason for having gold reserves in the first place - they are the bastion of a nation's currency - to be used in the last resort when paper money becomes unacceptable." Other analysts aren't so sure. For them, gold bugs like Fukuda are financial Neanderthals. "The typical reasons for holding gold, at least in developed countries, don't exist any more," said John Slater, a research economist at Britain's National Westminster Bank Group. "Gold does not provide the function that it used to in terms of a hedge against inflation and as a haven against disruption in the world," he said. The current era of low global inflation and peaceful post-Cold War relations have helped topple gold from its historic prominence. So, too, has the increasing popularity of investment alternatives, especially in the stock markets proliferating in rich and poor countries alike. Gold prices have plunged 11 percent since Britain's central bank announced in May that it planned to replace much of its gold holdings with higher-yielding assets like U.S. government securities. In its glory days in 1980, gold traded as high as $875 per troy ounce. Last Friday, the metal was trading in London at $256.80 an ounce. Prices have continued to drift lower as investors anticipate sales of gold by the International Monetary Fund and the central bank of Switzerland. The divide between supporters and skeptics of gold is sharpest in wealthy nations that don't depend greatly on earnings from gold sales for their overall prosperity. But poorer nations with comparatively bigger gold-mining industries, such as Uzbekistan, Mali and Papua New Guinea, have the most to lose from plunging gold prices. Gold is Uzbekistan's second-biggest export after cotton, and it accounts for 8 percent of Mali's gross domestic product. At current prices, sub-Saharan African countries, excluding South Africa, stand to earn $200 million less than expected this year. The IMF, which aims to help poor countries with proceeds from its own gold sales, will not be able to bridge that gap, according to the World Gold Council. South Africa, the world's leading gold producer, has one of the highest average costs of production, at $246 per ounce. One of the country's oldest firms, East Rand Proprietary Mines, announced plans last week to liquidate because it could no longer make a profit with gold at its current price. The liquidation would cost 5,000 mining jobs. Other mining companies want to lay off an additional 11,700 workers, a step that prompted a large protest on Thursday in South Africa's capital, Pretoria. The country's economy is in an "extremely precarious position," said David Munro, director of gold banking at The Standard Bank of South Africa Ltd. in Johannesburg. But cheaper gold is welcome in developing countries that are net importers of the metal. Many Asians and Middle Easterners, wary of shaky banks and political uncertainty, are firm believers in hoarding gold. Gold jewelry is now more affordable throughout East Asia, where the financial crisis that erupted two years ago in Thailand reinforced a widespread respect for gold as the safest store of value. In India, a bride's family typically gives gifts of gold earrings and bangles to the groom's parents. Anecdotal evidence suggests that demand for gold in India has risen in the last month. Microchip manufacturers and other industries that use gold as a raw material also should see a slight reduction in costs. The United States currently holds half of the world's gold reserves, but Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin has played down the possibility that Washington might sell off some its 8,139 metric tons. "I do not think the United States should sell its gold, for a whole host of reasons. It is a complicated subject," Rubin told the House Banking Committee in May. Such words could help soothe tempers in gold-mining states such as Nevada, where rumors abound that the Bank of England's auction was timed to help traders needing cheaper gold. Still, a resurgence in gold prices seems unlikely in the short-term. Analysts say it would take an unexpected loss of confidence in the dollar, together with a decision by the British and Swiss central banks to call off their gold sales, to reverse the downward trend. If prices did start to rise, sales of so-called scrap gold would meet any physical shortfall until mining companies could expand production. But few signs point to such a scenario.