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To: pgsachs who wrote (2391)	7/14/1999 10:36:00 PM
From: SJS	Respond to of 10027

Paul, I was searching the web for references on this, to corroborate my point, and I found a few that do. Specifically, future and commodities and options ARE zero-sum games, but equities are not, as we've tried to amply demonstrate. I've will be acquiring a more definitive mathematical perspective on this, and will share it with you and this thread (if interested) when I get a return reply. I, for one, know we're correct.....at least for equity's, as we've demonstrated. Steve

To: pgsachs who wrote (2391)	7/15/1999 2:16:00 AM
From: Raymond James Norris	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 10027

Paul: Let me first say I'm enjoying the conversation between you and SJS. You both have touched upon areas of which I am a student. In equities, one can be long without anyone being short (unless you consider the issuing corporation the short, but don't forget, they got the cash). It is this one sided aspect of equities that brings the Federal Reserve into the picture. When stock prices go up, money (& value) is created, expanding the money supply OKay, let me clear this up otherwise my past Finance Professors would kill me. The Federal Reserve controls the money supply. They are the only ones that can expand the money supply or contract it. And they accomplish this through "Open market operations," either buying or selling securities. Now, if it were true that stock price advances increased the money supply, you'd be in effect saying that stock prices could cause inflation since rapid increases in money supply cause inflation (and who will argue that the stock market hasnt rapidly increased?) No, equity investing is not a zero sum game. Look out your window. Every building, every car, every artifact is owned by someone, sometimes in aggregate, such as a municipal asset, sometimes privately, as in homeownership, but a huge proportion is owned by corporations. Over time, equities have a positive real return. Yes that's true but that does not imply that investing must be a positive sums game. You see, thousands of traders are washed out every year because they lose so much of their money trading stock. Conservatively Yours, Raymond J. Norris