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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Rambi who wrote (45851)	7/16/1999 1:56:00 PM
From: jbe	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 108807

penni, I never read "The Painted Bird" -- what I heard about it did not appeal to me -- and so I really can't respond to your questions, unfortunately. I'll confess I DID do a quick web search on Kosinski, to find out whether that plagiarism issue had ever been laid to rest. I happened upon one review article that I thought summed up the controversies surrounding Kosinski pretty well. (I presume you know he ended up by committing suicide.) leaderu.com

To: Rambi who wrote (45851)	7/16/1999 3:54:00 PM
From: Kid Rock	Respond to of 108807

Rambi, As you know I don't read books. I did read a few chapters of a Kosinski book ,Pinball. It was not good. Maybe I need to pick better authors. Tom

To: Rambi who wrote (45851)	7/17/1999 1:24:00 AM
From: greenspirit	Respond to of 108807

In quite a few of the classes I take in ORG Leadership the people running the program haven't a clue of the great books available. They get stuck on a certain book and never let it go. We had to read this book by a guy named Oshry in Systems thinking that could have been written by a 9th grader. I did my homework, tossed it and read some of the truly great thinkers like Ackoff, Seng'e and Gharajedaghi. Needless to say, besides Senge, the Professor hadn't even read the other authors. He was also clueless in how to use programs like ithink where you can perform serious modeling. After all, you can't teach people how to do things in masters classes! That would be too much like training! God forbide we might brake some ritualistic taboo or something! :-) That is one of the reasons we have a bunch of PHD's or people with masters who only know theories of management and not how to apply them. From my experience it seems like a lot of Professor's get a PHD and stop learning. Then they exhibit a lot of insecurity when challenged by students who are truly interested in the material. Unfortunately, far too many students are simply there to get a grade and a diploma. Michael

To: Rambi who wrote (45851)	7/17/1999 6:11:00 AM
From: Dayuhan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

I've read a few of Kosinski's novel's - a friend was a fan of his - and didn't really like any of them. I didn't really have a problem with the subject matter; I've read far more shocking stuff. I just find his style awkward, and I have little sympathy with his characters. The protagonists all seem to be aloof, superior, detached, surviving by manipulating the faceless mass around them. There has of course been speculation that this was the way he saw himself; it may or not be the case, but it certainly does not build a character that I can easily feel with. I have no idea who I think is the greatest writer of all time; I am probably most likely to be found re-reading Conrad, Borges, Shaw, or Wilde than any others. Possibly because I have lots of their stuff around the house.

To: Rambi who wrote (45851)	7/17/1999 7:32:00 AM
From: Edwarda	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

I did read The Painted Bird and I remember the professor's observing to the class that yes, it was horrifying, but they hadn't been able to put it down, had they? Most of the class agreed. I had to put it down every few pages. Although I suspect that everything that was said of Kosinski was correct in terms of plagiarism, ghost writers, and the like, I think that the point of the book was to illustrate the theme of man's "inhumanity" to man when societal constraints are lifted. It was meant to horrify for a reason.