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To: RealMuLan who wrote (37543)	7/22/1999 3:15:00 PM
From: long-gone	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 116779

OT <<I have the same, if not more, human rights in China than I have here in the US!! I live in both society, and that is my experience. It does not matter you believe it or not. >> Oh yeah, we believe that. Say something bad about your government - PLEASE! Then we will no longer need read your tripe. Why is that very government restricting the free practice of religion this very day? I have nothing against the Chinese people, their religions, or their long and wonderful culture, only worthless spy scum such as you.

To: RealMuLan who wrote (37543)	7/23/1999 2:54:00 AM
From: hui zhou	Respond to of 116779

OT *** >> Not ONE SINGLE person DIED on TianAnMen Square, only some were injured there. Those couple of hundreds (400-500)all dead outside that area.<< I think you are right on the number. I heard from the west propaganda press which claimed 5,000 killed. That is a shameless scan. VOA or BBC didn't even want to mention a word about some PLAs sacrificed their life and burned to death by the rioters because they obeyed the rule of maximum avoiding the civilian casualty. Look, during the Columbine high school shooting, with hundreds of "first class" reporters live on the scene, they told you that at least 25 people was dead on day one and day two. Finally, on day three, 10 dead men lived again, the number dropped to 15. Why do they need 3 days to count the number? I think they don't bother to pursue the fact, but love to exaggerate how bad the situation were to boost their rating. That is the low taste for the "free" press. Don't forget that mass media was control by a few supper richers. As a tool for them, they will like to feed you the stuff they want you to know, but cut short the things they don't want you to know. >> That revolution is one of the best thing happening to China and the World in 20th century. << Absolutely right. If not, how can 1 million badly equipped Communist force defeated the strong 8 million KMT national troops aided with massive advanced U.S. weapon in three short years? (I like to compare this to the soldier of Saudi Arabic. No matter how good they are armed, they just can't fight and still need US troops to protect them. Same is the Taiwan, my impression is they can't fight, even with all those F-16s and missiles. They need 7th fleet from US.) The answer is the support from the grass root mass. After the revolution, the human rights is greatly improved with ideas of life time employment, decision making participation by the workers, greatly improvement of women's status and rights, free education and medicare... Because the poor economy condition of the nations, those ideas might not be able to kick in throughout the country, but the right thinking is absolutely carried out in big cities. I think because the system itself make the things too easy(such as people did only 4 hours work in 8 hours work times, the rest of work time was wasted by reading the newspaper, sipping the tea, even playing chess and basketball. That is quiet different from the employee who try to sell their time and skill hard to their employers who usually are regarded as more than God in most people's eye in the capitalist society. ) and its fault economic theories are the reasons for the falling of the communism. But I don't agree that either socialism or the communism is demonic. Quiet contrary, the system does have the certain advantage. If you don't believe me, we just check the medal counts of Olympic game. Usually, China will list at 3-5 's place, the rest of the Asia countries are way behind. It is funny that when you mention communism, the people will immediately direct you to Stalin disaster policies starved million's in 1930's to prove how badly they are. But the West media mention very little about the similar treatment towards Irish by the Great Britain when the Irish famine, which reduced 25% of population, happened in 1845-47. The wrong policies were pointed out by Khrushchev in 1957 as soon as Stalin died. But I don't know why it takes so wrong for the British to feel sorry and admit that they could save million's people's life and not mistreat the Irish by used the enough food storage at that time in England by the Prime Minister Tony Blair 155 years later? I guess selfish, self-center, greediness, indifference and social injustice are always the by-product of the wonderful capitalism . I don't care the political incorrectness and the intolerance for the different opinions here, shall I say "born again" scientific socialism with new thinking, innovation, and ideas? This is the "free" society, isn't it?

To: RealMuLan who wrote (37543)	7/23/1999 11:16:00 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116779

I have the same, if not more, human rights in China than I have here in the US!! No Yiwu... even though Richard was unforgiveably rude to you, I have to disagree. You do not have the same or more rights in China than here. And I say this because my rights are guaranteed under the first 10 amendments to the US constitution. When those rights are violated, I have a legal recourse to present my grievance, to the Supreme Court if necessary (and more than enough lawyers willing to take the case pro bono "free") The rights you have in China are arbitrary and depend on the level of tolerance exhibited by the cronies in Bejing. There is nothing established in Chinese law that says you have the right to free speech. Indeed, we can see the paranoia of China's leadership in the recent banning of a peaceful religious/spiritualist group, the Falun Gong. Reports apparently originating from China claimed that the group once numbered some 70 million people, a not insignificant number, mostly middle aged and elderly. (so much for respecting your elders, eh?) I guess the human right of free religious practice was "guaranteed" for them by the government by detaining them all. For Bejing to go to these extremes against elderly people meditating in parks practicing Tai Chi is a glaring sign that things are getting out of control there and the leadership is overreacting. Regards, Ron