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Biotech / Medical : AFFYMETRIX (AFFX) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Mike McFarland who wrote (914)	7/23/1999 3:15:00 PM
From: LLCF	Respond to of 1728

Hey, glad you could join in!! <Unless we can find somebody here on SI who is doing expression or toxicity profiling with these chips, how can we have a discussion on who's chips are best--much less who's database is best.> I'm not discussing who's best... the market will tell us that over time. I'm just trying to find out what the business plans are all about and discuss how to follow them unfolding. Clearly saying that anyone has "monopoly power" is over the top especially in an emerging field... we haven't even crowned a Gorilla yet! Although in chips you'd have to say AFFX is the closest thing so far right? <I get the impression that AFFX is the leader in chips and INCY is the leader in database products.> Yes, makes sense... and how this unfolds should be very interesting, clearly both business plans overlap somewhat. I'm wondering if the two need to interface for one thing, would you use the information off the AFFX chip to compare or add to your INCY database?? Are there synergies to using both together [chips & database] as an interactive unit? If so that would put the chip companies on a collision course with databases unless one of the two opens their architecture for interaction. Who's the dog and who's the tail? Will INCY have to dance to AFFX's expression reading machines architecture, or will AFFX have to make sure it's machines [software] is interactive with INCY's databases? Or does this not matter at all? <Keep thrashing around Dave, it helps flush out folks who know this stuff--that's all I ever do.> Yea, I know I'm a pest... but I think we have to really figure out how all this works, so we can understand what the "deals" these companies sign really mean, and to see how this emerging market is developing. <Affymetrix's GeneChip arrays. The success of this database should be directly related to Affymetrix's installed base of GeneChip systems. With Affymetrix's placement rate of GeneChip systems accelerating, we believe a good way to take advantage of this is to own Gene Logic stock. Gene Logic should sign its first database deals late in the third quarter.> This seems to point toward databases dancing to AFFX's tune... it is also interesting in that it seems to point in the direction that there is certainly value having a database interact with the chips... although it looks like GeneLogic's data bases contain only chip info? INCY has already stated it has no interest in producing hardware. AFFX's 'genechipsystem' consists of the 'chips', reagents, and hardware, including a scanner to process the the arrays, and finally IM software. So they make chips, hardware, and software....? Or do they outsource some? Wow,,, that's enough for now. More digging. Oh, quick there's this: <Affymetrix' EasyAccess packages are volume discount pricing arrangements designed to meet the needs of large research organizations that want preferential and broad access to adopt Affymetrix' GeneChip technology. In addition to purchasing standard Affymetrix GeneChip probe arrays (derived from the public databases), Boehringer Ingelheim has the right to purchase custom GeneChip products based on gene sequence or database information available to Boehringer Ingelheim.> So AFFX will supply custom chips based in the INCY database for example.... more open architecture than it appears? hmmmm DAK

To: Mike McFarland who wrote (914)	7/23/1999 3:18:00 PM
From: Dr Goodhybe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1728

MMF wrote: "... I seem to remember he was very high on Affy" Still high on AFFX - I just don't post so much anymore: only when I have time. Also, w.r.t.: "Unless we can find somebody here on SI who is doing expression or toxicity profiling with these chips, how can we have a discussion on who's chips are best..." ... almost any prudent scientist working on such a chip project, whether from an academic, goverment or (especially) commercial lab isn't going to disclose information about in-progress research to this newsgroup: they'd probably wait until it was either published, or at the very least presented publicly at a research conference. To Whitmore G: the name of the movie is "GATTACA", not... whatever-it-is-you-typed. Doctor Goodhybe

To: Mike McFarland who wrote (914)	7/23/1999 3:40:00 PM
From: LLCF	Respond to of 1728

OFF TOPIC: <And lately you've had the hot hand right...> Easy come easy go... look at some of these in the last few days... still holding plenty of each: AXPH, GLIA, SEPR, MOGN, NBIX [below my average now!]... so hot hand is cooling rapidly. DAK

To: Mike McFarland who wrote (914)	8/4/1999 12:36:00 AM
From: John Starks	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1728

<Unless we can find somebody here on SI who is doing expression or toxicity profiling with these chips, how can we have a discussion on who's chips are best--much less who's database is best.> I am not personally a chip-user (though I play one on TV), but all the seminars I've seen that have included data obtained with chips have utilized Affy's. Interestingly, most of the folks ive talked to about microarrays haven't even heard of INCY. Mind you these are academics carrying out basic gene expression research, not pharma firms. however, these guys are loaded and looking for means to measure global gene expression in various contexts. this is a market that is ignored by most but shouldn't be. with the nih budget doubling over the next 5 years the academic niche for chips will be formidable. affy is dominating this niche with small-scale offerings and specialized chips made to order. it appears that incy has largely ignored this marketing opportunity.