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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Paul Engel who wrote (67048)	7/30/1999 2:59:00 PM
From: Jim McMannis	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1575425

RE:"Look for Intel to FORMALLY introduce 600 and 667 MHz Coppermines by November. You do understand the significance of the word FORMALLY, right ?"... FORMALLY? Does that mean another month or two after that when Coppafeels become readily available? Are these announcements taking the form or reminders? Jim

To: Paul Engel who wrote (67048)	7/30/1999 6:33:00 PM
From: Cirruslvr	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1575425

Paul - RE: "That was then. This is now." Are you into marketing now? "Look for Intel to FORMALLY introduce 600 and 667 MHz Coppermines by November." That would be very good for Intel, but I'll believe it when I see it or when News.com or some other reputable tech news site reports it. I'll be impressed if Intel can pull it off. "You do understand the significance of the word FORMALLY, right ?" Does that mean I would have to wear a tuxedo to attend the announcement?

To: Paul Engel who wrote (67048)	7/30/1999 11:03:00 PM
From: THE WATSONYOUTH	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 1575425

At ONE TIME, the Coppermine couldn't run at its rated speed except at room temperature. That was then.This is now. Coppermine is running just a "little" faster. Look for Intel to FORMALLY introduce 600 and 667 MHz Coppermines by November. I've been following this AMD/INTEL controversy for about a month now and will give my hopefully objective opinion. I believe the original COPPERMINE delay was way overblown. I think INTEL only had problems with the L2 cache at the higher speed sorts at .18um (above 667MHz) The fix might well have been two new block level masks to raise the threshold voltages in the L2 cache ONLY. This would fit all the rumors I've seen on this thread.I believe the fix was minor (perhaps 60 millivolts ) with minimal or no loss in performance. This means INTEL should be able to produce all but perhaps the highest speed sort COPPERMINES in quantity NOW. What would these speed sorts be? As I posted earlier, I expect a 25% improvement at .18um over the highest stable .25um part for the same design. I think the .25um part is limited to perhaps 650MHz but I doubt you will see a .25um speed sort there unless Intel accepts significant circuit limited yield loss .(INTEL's process control may be good - but not THAT good) So they will roll out COPPERMINE targeting 667MHz with the slow speed sort misses shipping at 600MHz. The 733MHz speed sort is (I believe)ready now and only the ultimate speed sort at 800MHz is in question (but with plenty of time to work on it). I would doubt they could go any higher at .18um until the next generation design. Where does that leave AMD? I see no response at .25um that could match what INTEL could do NOW at .18um. I would guess AMD is at least 6 months behind INTEL in implementing .18um in Austin and further behind in Dresden with the COPPER BEOL. Also, I doubt AMD's device design at .18um will match INTEL's. My guess is that INTEL will remain the MHz leader with COPPERMINE to at least the middle of next year. When AMD gets the .18um process up and running to its ultimate capability, (matching or nearly matching INTEL's) the better design will clearly win out. This could happen but in my opinion not until the second half of next year. I guess what I am saying is this. Line tailoring can add 40% in performance (nominal to minimum channel length in the same generation)) Generation to generation can add another 25% (.25um to .18um) Therefore, you have to know EXACTLY where each company is in terms of generation introduction and line tailoring capabilities within that generation in order to predict who can produce what MHz when. So TIMING is all critical. It appears to me that the design superiority of ATHLON is not as large as AMD would want. So a six month process capability difference between AMD and INTEL could negate it. I truly believe this thread under estimates the processing implications in this race. So, we will just have to wait and see how it all turns out. It should be interesting. THE WATSONYOUTH