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Politics : Bill Clinton Scandal - SANITY CHECK -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: pezz who wrote (57928)	8/2/1999 7:13:00 PM
From: gao seng	Respond to of 67261

Immanuel Kant: "The existence of the Bible, as a book for the people, is the greatest benefit which the human race has ever experienced. Every attempt to belittle it is a crime against humanity." Sir Isaac Newton: "There are more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in an profane history." Goethe: "Let mental culture go on advancing, let the natural sciences progress in ever greater extent and depth, and the human mind widen itself as much as it desires; beyond the elevation and moral culture of Christianity, as it shines forth in the gospels, it will not go." Horace Greeley: "It is impossible to enslave mentally or socially a Bible-reading people. The principles of the Bible are the groundwork of human freedom."

To: pezz who wrote (57928)	8/3/1999 12:46:00 AM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 67261

<<I have no problem with the original life resulting from "devine will" Just the idea that evolution and natural selection were not the methods with which this "devine will" was carried out. Any supreme being must still adhere to the laws of physics.>> Any supreme being implies supremely above the laws of the supreme being's creation. The creation of the supreme being is perfect in every way so it also makes sense that the laws of physics are perfect and that "adhering" to them simply makes sense. This is why "miracles" are such a powerful testament of divine intervention. It is only your stubborn insistance that it has to start from the simplest and grow to the most compex and advanced that is at issue, I guess. If divine will can create one organism it can create a vast and complex universe with the same ease. As a side bar here, I don't buy the marketing of miracles that goes on with the modern day televangelists. If a powerful testament is desirable to a supreme being it wouldn't be a display of how someones sinuses became cleared after prayer. So, we agree on laws of physics being in line with devine will not a counter explanation of existance. What is imperfect and subject to the whim of the scientists of the day is our knowlegde of the phisical universe and how it works. <<I guess there is a considerable disagreement here on what constitutes "plausible". I agree the fossil record is not perfect but I see no evidence at all to support the creation theory.>> Well, you have rules for what you syphon out as evidence. It seems you want to stay with the observable physical evidence. Since you see that the universe has order in its vast complexity and is rule driven, it is a very small step to take from here to a "moral" universe. It is interesting to me that you seem very tuned in to the behavior of those who take (or claim to take) a stand on principle: Hyde for example...It is like on the one hand you have a lucid moral barometer and yet deny the existance of the moral universe. <<I don't doubt the honesty of these messengers.... That does not in any way make their claims correct. The world is full of well meaning incorrect people.Always has always will. What I want to see is some hard evidence.This is completely lacking.>> Their credibility is evidenced by their lives. Why would thousands of messengers going to all nations in all times be exampliary in their life except on one count; the claim that "There is no God but God." I am not refering to myself or to the bible thumpers I am refering to the authenticated messengers who were chosen and directly given a message for human beings. <<The world is full of well meaning incorrect people.Always has always will.>> I don't believe divine inspiration is God sending a message. This is where Neocon can join the discussion, I guess. This is the premise of the New Testament as it has been preserved. <<What I want to see is some hard evidence.This is completely lacking.>> No. The Quran is full of scientific evidence. The period the West calls the dark ages of Europe was a rich and rewarding period in the Islamic societies. It was driven by the scientific discovery stimulated by the Quran and the Hadith. <<This is the flaw in religious view points as I see them.They have been locked into a particular concept and are unable to change as new evidence becomes available.Thus they make themselves look foolish trying to support implausible claims. Claims that may have looked good one hundred years ago.>> Granted there are close minded individuals in every sphere and "group think" can be an oppressive force in society. The vehicle exists, however, in the scriptures for education and discovery. We are commanded to be studious of Gods message. We are also commanded to study Gods creation. The scriptures themselves contain scientific revelation that is even today being unlocked. So, there is no good reason for any religious people to be stuck with "foolish and implausible" claims. The fact that I am not the supreme being is observable by anyone with eyes to see it is also a daily experience that I can testify to. The fact that all the scientists ever created could not replicate even one aspect of the vast complexity of creation is further evidence that supremacy is not an characteristic of the created universe but an all knowing and all powerful being above creation. Oh btw even if you are successful in clone yourself it would not change anything as I believe the clone creation would be given its own soul. I don't see that as any kind of contradiction.