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To: Greg Ford who wrote (38326)8/5/1999 12:22:00 AM
From: d:oug  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 116752
 
Greg, hello and I bet you are presently mystified as why I am repling
to you post that has an example about hedging using ABX (Barrick).

The nice lady Bobby, Morel_Dog, recommended that I start asking others
questions, and with a hint between the lines, start off with easy ones.

I thought and decided that 20/20 hindsight is always helpful, along
with a "...knowing what I know now...if I could do it over...", so
to make it double easy for you I copied below a post of your that has
proclamations and predictions, posted 2 1/2 months ago.

Not sure, but I think enough has happened that you may change or add
to some of what you wrote.

The main reason I choose your post was that you politely stated that
the GATA investigation might not be able to produce any hard evidence
to support what they claim as forces illegally controlling gold prices.

At this point in time GATA has not done so, infact they have added to
the amount of stuff that they claim as existing to make the case that
everything they have presented is true. One can even see them presenting
information that cannot be verified, "to verify" past things that have
not yet been verified.

For a follow thru of this examination of GATA I now please ask you to
rewrite your post of 75 days ago, unless you stand firm on it all.

Also, please read the next post I submit to you, and I recommend that
you read it after you read your prior post, and before you reply since
in my next post is today's news from GATA via the Le Metropole Cafe,
and it has a LOT of stuff that is really strong in the possibily or
could be or might be, and all of it is without verification. I think
maybe this Cafe's peson has over stepped in an attempt to rally the
troops with too much gusto. ok for a football team, but that really
only a game and its ok to put on a game face and try and unglue the
other side. Just read it and o my o my o my, if true to be it is.

thanks, doug

From: Greg Ford Thursday, May 13 1999

...misguided in assuming that J Aron (Goldman Sachs) is short gold
or that there is a large short position relating to LTCM...

There has been no concrete evidence to support these conclusions.

As far as LTCM, all I have seen is misleading statements that they
were short gold. Nothing has been clarified regarding this.

If they were short gold some central bank would be quite concerned
and we would have seen an increase in lease rates as the banks sought
to recover their gold. This has not happened.

The problem with this market is clearly one of sentiment.

The low gold price has created an environment where producers are
hedging at lower and lower levels.

Unhedged or underhedged producers could be as much of a problem to
the gold market as central banks.

Companies like Battle Mountain, Kinross, Newmont and Homestake have
little or no hedge books. They will become under increasing pressure
to hedge if the price continues to stay low.

Hedgers such as Barrick and Placer have not shown any inclination to
wind down their hedge books. In fact they are more active then ever.

So how does gold crawl back above $290? I think we need to continue
to see improved financial conditions in Asia and perhaps a weakening
of the US dollar. This with a little inflation from the recent base
metal and energy rally should help support gold. But don't think that
we have seen the end of central bank sales. IMF and Swiss sales seem
relatively certain although their timing is in doubt. Don't be surprised
if we see some Latin American sales as well.

Greg



To: Greg Ford who wrote (38326)8/5/1999 12:25:00 AM
From: d:oug  Respond to of 116752
 
The Gong Show, moderator:Hannibal, screamplay:Nostradamus, special guest:HEAT

The James Joyce Table
Discussion du Jour: Gold, Commodities, Midas du Metropole
Midas du Metropole, August 3, 1999

...the selling is pressure by the banks on certain producers to hedge.
...The banks in this case are the Hannibals.

... Midas will offer his version of what is going on...

... the CFTC chatter... (USA Commodity Futures Trading Commission)

... US Commodity Futures Trading Commission has been in contact with
major gold market players recently, but that is just part of the
agency's normal surveillance, said a commission spokesman...

Some industry sources had speculated recently that the CFTC was
investigating the gold market. While the CFTC typically cannot say if
there is an ongoing investigation, it has commented from time to time if
there is Heightened surveillance,. said the spokesman. He noted that
the CFTC conducts routine surveillance of commodities markets and said
that recent calls to major gold market players were part of routine
surveillance.

Last nite in my Midas I informed the Cafe via my Fisher-Hannibal parody
that something was going on regarding the CFTC and the gold market. This
is confirmation that the Cafe information presented to you was right on
the money.

.. the CFTC is being a bit disingenuous here. A second
source told me that he has conveyed information to the CFTC about the
gold market and is under court order not to discuss that information
with anyone ... So stay tuned. The CFTC gold story is just beginning...

.The most important Period of the year, as far as the stars are
concerned, is not Y2K-day, it's the upcoming Eclipse series and
accompanying massive configurations. About this momentous occasion, the
French psychic Nostradamus wrote 430 years ago: In the year 1999 and
seven months (old style), From the skies will come a King of Terror, To
raise again the King of the Mongols (China?) , Before and after, Mars (
God of War ) shall reign at will.

Although the psychic world speaks to us more in riddles, which can be
easily understood only after the fact, the timing of this one is hard to
escape!

Nightmare Scenarios ... attempt to pierce the veil of the future...
(1) ...
(2) ...
(3a) Financial Meltdown...Chinese devaluation...unwinding...Yen-$US carry...
(3b) Financial Meltdown...GOLD SHORT...Hedge Funds in vulnerable positions
(4) ... and finally
(5) Y2K related Panic and Bank Runs...
...dates ... August 5, 7, 11, 17 ...

August 11, 1999! This is THE BIG ONE, The MOTHER of All Solar Eclipses
about which the 16th Century Seer, NOSTRADAMUS wrote: A king of Terror
will come from the skies.

... from London that the pressure on Tony
Blair and the Labour Party to reverse their Bank of England gold sale
program is most intense. At this very moment there are .government to
government. negotiations going on. The damage to the economies of
Sub-Saharan countries in Africa has been extensive. The .Labours. are
looking like .louts. in England. The British bankers are looking like
.buggers. ...

Conversation between Mr. ? of the New York Fed and Hannibal Lechter.,
the Infamous Bullion Dealer.

Patterned after the Wall Street Journal Article by ...

Hello Hannibal, -.This is X , How are you?.

.Fine X , Nice to hear from you. This is the same secured line that
you always call me on, correct?.

.Of course, Hannibal. I would never call you on an unsecured line.
Thought I had better touch base with you again. Seems like the markets
are acting up a bit and making our gold scheme a bit more difficult to
control...

Mr. X - The day started out poorly for...

Hannibal, I have a big concern - we actually skated through the day
today. Did you see the commodity markets?...
... That does not bode well for tomorrow.

Fortunately, we have done such a job on this gold market that it closed
lower. We have succeeded in taking gold off the radar screen for the
moment as a reasonable investment vehicle, but I do not think we can
hold out much longer.

... We have really pulled this one off so far, suckered the press
and analysts to believe that the bearish research of your fellow
Hannibals is relevent and the price action of gold...

But, the general world cannot stay so ignorant and naïve for much
longer. This is not the Gong Show you know - if the outside markets keep
acting the way they have been recently, they are going to realize they
have been duped.

Hannibal - X, you read my mind. We have been very nervous lately and have
been trying to figure our way out of this. That is why we have been
aggressively buying the last couple of weeks. We bought a couple of
thousand contracts on the Comex alone today. And we had a conference
call with our clients telling them that we thought the price would be
going up from here. We realize the spotlight on our manipulation is
growing by leaps and bounds. And, as you point out, all the normal
factors that drive the price of gold higher are in place and occurring,
so it is raising great suspicions as to why the price of gold goes down
on a day like this. I think what we have done is a bit out of control...

Clients call us up and say: what about gold - it is so cheap. They then
point out how the dollar looks like it has topped, yen intervention has
failed, oil is trading at $20 to $21 per barrel and now the grains are
on fire. They do not understand why the price of gold is not $100 higher
than at present? We have buffaloed them until now with our stories of
central bank selling, gold is dead, etc. But the stories about Congress
killing the IMF gold sales and the stories circulating about how the
Swiss will not sell their gold is having its effect. We can't spout off
our propaganda so easily now.

And X , have you caught the flack that Tony B is getting in London
from all the African countries about the Bank of England sale. He is
also hearing it in spades from the Tories in the House of Commons. And
stories are surfacing about who was behind the decision and why it was
made. You know this silly GATA group has let everyone know of the
Hannibal connections to the Bank of England - and people are publishing
it. Drats to those people. They even... sent ... to ...

Mr. X - Well, Hannibal, yes - unfortunately, I have heard of that letter.
It is being circulated. Much to my regret, it will be very hard to deny
what they have to say. If we ever get subpoenaed on this, we have
problems. I received a phone call today that said the CFTC has started
an investigation into certain bullion dealers and brokerages about
charges of manipulating the gold market...

... Phil Gramm ... Wendy Gramm, his spouse, used to be Chairman of the CFTC.

Hannibal-.What do you make of that?.

Mr. X - You see Hannibal, she and Brooksley Born, the recently resigned
CFTC, respected each other as dames and respect each other as colleagues
as they held the same position.
You remember ... as they held the same position. You remember
how Brooksley was fighting for greater market transparency and was
rebuffed by my administration and Secretary Rubin? She just would not
stop pushing for what she believed was good for the country and needed
to be done. So, Secretary Rubin had her canned...

Mr. X - Wendy Gramm knows Brooksley got a raw deal that should
never have happened. She goes and tells her powerful husband that
something is very wrong - and that Brooksley was wronged. Then these
GATA chumps send him this well documented bit of information.
Next thing we know rumors are circulating about a CFTC investigation.
One of my moles at the CFTC called to tell me today that a wire service
called them to inquire about the rumors...

Mr. X - This is what I mean Hannibal - that the HEAT is turning up.

Hannibal - Geez X , you are right, this is not good. I have something to
tell you too. The word is getting out about Tiger, the hedge fund that
GATA thinks you helped bail out. The secret banking meeting in
Philadelphia, the rumor of the emergency Fed Meeting and the rumor's of
Tiger's redemptions are all resurfacing. My sources are telling me that
GATA has been informed that Tiger is short over 10 million ounces of
gold and they are telling people Tiger went short (borrowed ) much of
the gold around the time of the Bank of England announcement to help
them out of the jam they were in. This is not good for us - to have this
get out because we (our firm) sold practically every day after the BOE
announcement. Many thought we were selling for you, now they will think
it was for Tiger ....

Hannibal - And word is out all over London about our 1,000 tonne short
position. They say it was revealed to some very prominent Brits and they
are telling others about it. Even the Financial Services Authority in
London is on our case. Naturally, it is suspected that part of that
1,000 tonne position is for Tiger and, as I just said, for you X.

Hannibal - What troubles me is what some smart types are thinking ...
...market people know that Julian Robertson (Tiger main man and revered
hedge fund guru) is no dummy. He got beat up trying to get out of his
yen carry trade position last year. Certainly, knowing commodities the
way he does, he would not make the same mistake in gold, too. Unless, of
course, that he was assured that the price of gold would not go beyond a
certain point so his gold borrowings would not go underwater and
jeopardize his entire business. That reflects on you X ...

Mr X - Hannibal, you know as well as I that he needed big help and the
gold borrowing position he took helped him out of a big hole - and also
helped keep the gold carry positions of you and your cousins safe for
awhile. Good for Tiger, good for us. Good for the overall markets. And
everyone has kept their mouth shut. Besides, it saved us a ...

Hannibal - Yes, but it is not just these GATA folks that are stirring the
pot about Tiger. At the Diggers and Dealers Conference in Australia, word
was circulated that Tiger is short 200 tonnes, not the 10 million ounces
coming from GATA's sources, but still a lot of gold. This could be a
nightmare for us if this story gets any more legs.

Mr X - I have bad news for you Hannibal. It gets worse. These GATA clowns
want to blow the whistle on this one. They have found out that Tiger has
a $250 million or so investment in Normandy Mining Ltd...some odd reason
they have claimed insider status...

Mr X - Hannibal, GATA is trying to make the case that the Tiger's
redemption problems/ short gold borrowing position, the peculiar,
reckless comments of Champion de CresPIGny, the secret banking meeting
in Philadelphia, are all related in some manner. It is this association
of entities that has so many newcomers talking of conspiracies now...

Mr. X - .Good friend Hannibal, I must tell you something else that my vast
Fed network sources have brought to my attention. It could cause us big
trouble because it fits this GATA story stuff.

I know for a fact that a highly respected man in the gold industry
wanted to promote a millenium coin idea to sell millions of gold coins
and promote gold sales. GATA has learned that ******** Mining and
******* **** shot down the idea. GATA is convinced that ******** and
*******, two such significant producers, are part of the problem and in
fact in on our deal. They have been very patient trying to get them to
change their ways, but for the obvious reasons we know, they got no
place. But my guys tell me that they are now going on the offensive
about these two companies and are going to expose what devastation
companies such as these are causing the gold community...
... Just thought you should know.

Hannibal - ... has known about this and we have his blessing... Robert is out
of Treasury and Goldman Sach's IPO was at top of the stock market mania,
but Larry (Treasury Secretary, Summers) is a good man and he can ...

Hannibal - We can pull this off. The public are a bunch of dummies...
They have fallen for our routine so far and as long as the mainstream press
is too lazy or scared to look into what we are doing, nothing will change.
... Unfortunately, Merrill Davidoff of Berger & Montague (GATA's lawyer)
spotted him and confronted him as to what he was doing...

Mr. X - ... this guy is an old goat, but he is one smart old goat...
... messing with stock market .... the Plunge Protection Team gone amok...
... that we have prevented any serious corrections so as to ...

Mr. X - We knowest what we have done here, Hannibal. The clock is ticking.
I hate to agree with Herr Schmidt, but we are running out of bullets...
we cannot influence these market psychopaths much longer. You know that
and that is why you have been buying lately. The problem is we have to cap
rallies for awhile or you and your cousins will not be able to fully
cover your shorts. That could cause big, big problems and we have to
protect against that. Let us cover here, let the market rally $20-$25 -
get the HEAT off, and then slam the dummies again for awhile. What do
you think?.

Hannibal - Yes, I know that is the plan, but what if all the other markets
are going in the soup and our brethren panic and the central banks start
calling the gold loans in with excessive earnest due to liquidity fears?
What if we can't stop the rally at $275 to $285?.

Mr. X - Then Hannibal, my friend, find a better lawyer than GATA has,
because when this all breaks - and I am more nervous now than I ever
could have imagined because of the outside market action - there will be
hell to pay. Especially if the stock market dives and all those so
called long term investors bailout on a 50% correction. They will want
scalps and GATA will be sending them our way. Might have to practice
ducking.

Hannibal - Life has been so good, X .Do you really think we could have
such problems? After all, look who we are.

Mr X - Well, who knows? But one bit of advice for you, my friend...

Midas
lepatron@lemetropolecafe.com with questions or comments
lemetropolecafe.com
Copyright 1999 Le Metropole Cafe



To: Greg Ford who wrote (38326)8/5/1999 8:20:00 AM
From: long-gone  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 116752
 
<<If they were short gold some central bank would be quite concerned
and we would have seen an increase in lease rates as the banks sought
to recover their gold. This has not happened. >>
Lease Rate August 05, 1999
1-year 3.0470% +0.0320
kitco.com
January 07, 1998 1.80%
kitco.com

If you wish to discredit GATA, you might well, better your cause and argument if you start from a basis of fact instead of fiction! You will note the far higher lease rates.

While I may(or may not) agree with all GATA says, they are the only group placing any pressure on this government to stop the manipulation of the gold markets.

I believe, if you review their position with care, you will not find any where they said LTCM had a short gold position.