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Strategies & Market Trends : DAYTRADING Fundamentals -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: dpl who wrote (2800)	8/14/1999 12:03:00 PM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 18137

Hi dpl; About those ISLD fills... You have to watch the level-2 action to figure out whether or not you should have been filled, and even then, strange things can happen. Regarding the attempt to short CMGI at 82, where CMGI turned at 82, it is very frequently impossible to make these sorts of turns. Earlier I had promised a post on prices, I guess I will type it into Notepad over the next half hour or so, as it will explain what is going on here, I hope. -- Carl

To: dpl who wrote (2800)	8/14/1999 12:52:00 PM
From: TraderAlan	Respond to of 18137

David, The part Bilow didn't answer ;-), yes you'd probably have been filled as long as buying/selling pressure were evenly matched at that spread. You need to enter ISLD shorts 1/16th above the bid. They then look like any other ISLD sell order. If someone wanted to buy CMGI at 82 and there weren't other orders in front of you, they would take your order out. I tend to think of small prints outside the spread as dumb retail messing up but large prints as smart institutions. But there may be much better explanations, like late and inaccurate prints. Alan

To: dpl who wrote (2800)	8/15/1999 1:43:00 PM
From: Eric P	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 18137

I'll toss in my 2 cents regarding your ISLD question, to supplement what Carl and Alan have already posted. "Friday morning I entered a short for CMGI at 82 before the opening through FIDO(I know :-)). On my T&S it showed prints at 82 with the highest B/A of 81 7/8 by 82.If I had a limit on ISLD at 82 would there have been a chance of a fill?" A few general comments... First, I would assume that any FIDO order entered pre-market would not become active until the market opens at 9:30 AM. However, assuming that your order found it's way to the ISLD ECN, then you would have a very good chance of being filled. Please also note that since this is a premarket short order, the uptick rule does not apply. Therefore, you do not have to place your order 1/16 above the bid or care whether the bid tick is up or not. Also, you should be very careful when looking at the inside bid or ask prices pre-market. Often times, the bid/ask will be sharply crossed in stocks that are gapping at the open. For example, assume that WXYZ stock closed at $50/share. At the close, there are several market makers bidding 50 and several market makers offering at 50 1/16. After the close, let's assume that the company reports bad earnings (or any other bad news). Premarket, several market makers and ECN's will be posting offers at prices well below 50, let's assume 45. However, there will likely still be some 'slow' market makers who have not refreshed their bids/offers from the previous close and are still showing their previous bid of 50. As a result, the inside bid and offer will be crossed, i.e. 50 bid by 45 offered. The true indication of the value of the stock (premarket) is by checking out the price of the T&S prints, and more importantly, looking at the active price quotes of the ECN's. There is no way to say whether your premarket CMGI short order would have been filled. But with the data you provided, it's safe to say that you had a very good chance of being filled. Good luck, -Eric