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Gold/Mining/Energy : ORXX - Orex Gold Mines Corporation -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Richard Mazzarella who wrote (577)	8/23/1999 9:40:00 PM
From: Aj-Ruk	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 2392

Richard that is quite a change of attitude since your post #543. Not saying you are wrong but your sail is definitely blowing in the wind.

To: Richard Mazzarella who wrote (577)	8/23/1999 10:14:00 PM
From: Ga Bard	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 2392

What convertible? They do not have convertibles? I do understand the the game. Buy and sell orders are executed against the best bid (price at which a Market Maker is willing to buy stock) and best offer (price at which a Market Maker is willing to sell stock) only. I am also aware there is a lot of forces in the market outside the company. Shorting is something I wish I could do. It is extremely profitable. Cross trading is a tactic for MMs to keep the stock liquid. I have heard some say it is moving a short around, some say it is a convertibles, options, warrants, whatever (like you), and some say it is someone selling stock. Heck, it could be a combination of all of the above. I will do you one better .. I can take a certificate and transfer it into street name and never sell a share and say I was not selling and shorting the fire with the certificate as a low risk back up if I should get caught. This is infamous in Canada since the offshore was done away with. For all we know someon has a cert at a broker and shorting against it. There is too many possibilities here but what you suggest I just can't conceive. But the short with a cert I probably can. And if someone gets nailed then they will transfer the cert into street name. OR someone is shorting it paying the spread to make money ... Yep I understand what is happening and there is going to come a time when they take it too far just like ARET, BAAY and a few others ... Those stocks were plagued with MM codes before they soared. Liars, crooks and incompetent I would agree with as far as the management I have talked to and this is the first time they have been public so they are not very stock smart. Oh and I doubt anyone has sold especially under .25 ... trading suggests playing the spread. ALso the crossovers are increasing between MMs ... if someone was selling why would they be doing crossovers? But this is my opinion ... :-) GB

To: Richard Mazzarella who wrote (577)	8/24/1999 7:59:00 AM
From: Ga Bard	Respond to of 2392

Richard, Here are some interesting points from some links that I feel are required reading for anyone not familiar with the market. Also shorters and other agenda forces do strange things in this market. But high volumes and dropping the price methodically 20% a day is BS. This is very well planned. In fact, much of the volume that looks so impressive on Nasdaq is not investor meeting investor but marketmaker meeting investor or marketmaker meeting marketmaker. Actually moving a share from one investor to another may involve not a single trade but several: seller to marketmaker; marketmaker to buyer. John Gould and Allan Kleidon in the Stanford Journal of Law, Business & Finance in 1994 analyzed this method of counting volume and concluded that roughly 41% of Nasdaq volume is investor-generated. The rest--59%--is marketmakers trading among themselves, known as "the churn." Double- and triple-counting volume achieves a couple of things. It creates the illusion of liquidity in a stock. It also explains why a single day's trading in a Nasdaq stock may represent a major part of its float. Not a big turnover in ownership but simply trading the same shares several times in the day may have accounted for the bulk of the action. Forbes magazine "One day the music is going to stop." Penny stocks are thinly traded and subject to domination and control by a single market maker. As such, unlisted securities are attractive vehicles for manipulative, artificial schemes which are intended to raise the price or volume of the securities. BBB 1989 "Penny Stock Frauds" Sometimes, of course, thinly traded stocks can be run down by aggressive short sellers, and the Mob is alleged by Street sources to have profited from that as well. Business Week 1996 "THE MOB ON WALL STREET" SO as you can see crossing "The Churn" no one wants to say exists. Rather the tout is "Someone is selling" Or some other ridiculous scenario. Shorting for 20% a day is extremely profitable. However, one day they take it too far and it erupts thus the nays scream PUMP and DUMP!!! then it holds. OREX came out trading in March @ 1.50 and went to 7.50 and has been nethodically taken down to .09 ... However along the way there is nothing in the DTC or ADP or anywhere that shows an insider selling stock to tank it. Just recently the crossing has increased in the volume 4 times of what it was last week alone. However you want to look at it. Almost 18M has traded in volume since 7-29-199 ... That figure is the overall Float of possible shares that could come into the market. So call it what you want but there is a lot more going on here than someone selling. The Churn is happening and the actual sells and buys are small when you research the time and sells. :-) GB