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Pastimes : The Truth about Waco -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Merritt who wrote (4)	8/29/1999 2:32:00 PM
From: James F. Hopkins	Respond to of 1449

Merrit; I saw the same thing you did, and the bullets coming out of that room ( begs the question as to who was firing them ) Considering Roof mans actions of tossing something in ( that made a lot of smoke ) and then apparently spraying the room with gun fire that he just put 3 men in ? This action is highly suspect , and begs the question if there may have been a fragging plan in effect to rid that particular unit of some "undesirables" who knew to much and were potential whistle blowers. Jim PS I have both the Big Lie, and the follow up tape Big Lie continues plus about 60 hrs of TV tapes, including the Senate hearings there is something seriously wrong with the ATF's & Reno's version of what happened at Mt. Carmel. Even before this last discovery of 40mm flammable gas devices being uncovered there has always been something bad wrong. The major news media is and should be embarrassed about the coverage they did. Many of the tapes I have the major news media avoided Ie- while the fire engines were delayed under the spin of it wasn't safe , back behind the building there were agents by the dozen walking around with impunity ( by then they knew the Davidins were completely incapacitated.) The 911 recording to the fire department is most damaging, listening to it and the tone any one with half a drop of sense can tell the fire chief had been prepared and he knew he was just going to perform a functionary run but wasn't going to fight any fire I guess they didn't think any one would ever listen to that tape. ------------ The metal front door they made such a big thing about the Dividian's shooting through early in the raid, well it didn't burn up, yet to this day no one can find it. I'm reasonable sure all the bullet holes were pointed the wrong way to support the ATF's spin. Jim PS number two; At no time in nothing I have written do I defend the Davidains right to do what they did. David when confronted should have raised his hands palms forward and invited the ATF in. By the same token I conclude that certain hard core factions in the upper echelon of that strike team had manipulated things in such a way as to be reasonable sure he would resist, and this hard core faction was looking and hoping for a fire fight. When things went sour on the ATF , the FBI was then called in and forced to share in the heat and help clean up the mess. One thing lead to another and without burning down the building to get rid of all the bullet holes the upper echelon in that ATF strike force would have been in serious trouble. ------------ The physiology used during the negotiations was slanted to keep David from surrendering , and a chief FBI agent in taht department actually resigned his post because of conflicts with those who he knew were spinning it the wrong way. This should have sent a clear message to Janet Reno as that agent put a lot at risk just resigning. This happened well before the fire, Reno should have seen it coming but was more interested in the politics of the thing than anything else. The irony of her political stance was very short sighted as well, as our use of tanks on those people produced a field day for every tyrant in the world. For any one who can see past the end of their nose and takes a good look at this fiasco the damage done extends far beyond the deaths at Mt Carmel. ------------------ I don't think, I know that had I had any charge of this after the gung ho raid went sour, (1 ) The ATF would have been backed out completely and replaced with the FBI ( to avoid conflicts of interest ) no one in that initial raid would have had a damm thing to say about how and what to do to resolve the conflict. (2) If the FBI didn't object I would have brought in the Texas Rangers, up front ( not after the fact to gather up what evidence the ATF thought was not consequential ) (3) A call would have been made to every water well drilling outfit in South Texas and behind sheet steel mounted on skids I would have drilled enough wells to have washed them out. ( I'm 99% sure this would have worked as I have used water cannons before) (4) No way would military tanks have been used even if the above didn't work I would have at the worst rented or bought civilian ( Brink's type) armored trucks in. Any thing to avoid making it look like a military operation, that was the most stupid mistake Reno made and it had no other course but to end in disaster. (5) Some heads would have rolled from the get go on the mere use of Military helicopters. There are plenty of police types that could have been found, and the spinmasters that used the Drug scam to circumvent the law would at least barred from law enforcement for life. Jim

To: Merritt who wrote (4)	8/31/1999 11:39:00 PM
From: Devin Barrett	Respond to of 1449

I also own this video distributed by Atty. Linda Thompson, as well as the far superior "Waco, The Rules Of Engagement," nominated for Academy Award in the documentary category. A friend of mine in the military did say it was possible the flames seemingly bursting from the "weapon" part of the tank were sucked in as the tank backed out of the building and then appeared to be coming from the ...weapon. This was long before Mike McNulty's film on Waco, before more evidence was gathered and more people involved quit their jobs and began talking. It is of the opinion of many that footage was edited. One can read more in "And Justice for Some: Disposable People" at eclectica.org in Eclectica Magazine with quotes form key players. Dev Their rights=YOUR rights