Heh, well, if we are going to use condescending tones, I can go that way.
<<there is a huge jump between a possibly stupid decision to blare "Lawrence Welk" at Koresh's murderous extremists, and a decision from the Federal government to murder everyone>>
I never claimed that the FBI or AFT was maleficent. Open a dictionary.
<<How were Reno's tactics comparable to the Nazi's inhumane actions>>
A Nazi tactic is also referred to as a Gestapo tactic. It is a system of beliefs put exemplified by Nazi Germany, in the abuse of personal civil rights. Only liberal actors want the members of the right dragged out of their beds and dismembered in the streets (Baldwin). Reno's actions are a parallel with the actions of Hitler's high commanders in the mid to late 30's. Read some history on it, frightenly similar.
<< You allow outside contact, and encourage negotiation, and eventually they will calm down. >>
Well, it seems that you disagree with me on this point. That's ok. I don't have a degree in psychology. All of mine are in money. But I do have a little common sense.
So, why don't we look at the situation, some alternatives, and determine a good course of action.
Koresh believes that the government is out to get him. The governmnet claimed that Koresh believed hes was Christ, but proof of that is flimsy.
So, in order to save the children of his followers from abuse and danger, do you
A) Plan a military raid on a well defended and well armed compound. Contianing in the neighborhood of 100 individuals.
B) Hand out leaflets in town about how Koresh is evil, and should be shunned.
C) Bide your time, and excecute a snatch and grab operation on Koresh, when he is driving into town with a couple of guards.
Hmmm, since our goal is protect the children, we obviously want to attack the coumpound with automatic weapons and flash grenades. Some tear gas is a good measure.
Oh, and when that fails, our back up plan is to make this individual who already feels persecuted, feel even more isolated by cutting off all access to the outside world.
I will reiterate, this is simply stupid. I realize that the government has to scrape the bottom of the barrel for employees sometimes, but I always thought that those in the FBI at least, were fairly intelligent.
<<OTOH, FBI negotiations were done for many weeks. >>
Yep, neogotitions did go on for weeks.
"David, you have to surrender now. You can trust us, we are from the government, we are here to help you. Don't mind the fact that we shot several of your followers dead, we were trying to help them too."
If you think that my ideas of hostage neogotiation are so ridiculous, what would you do? Call in an airstrike? How about cruise missles, just target Koresh, that'll work.
The premise behind hostage neogotiation is building trust with the captors. The neogotiator speaks with the captor, offers things the captor needs, in return for receprocity. This is how the Freeman stand off was solved, and it worked fine.
<<The first one that pops up is The Order>>
I'm not familiar with The Order. I do remember an armegeddon cult in Japan that nevre gassed the subway. I remember a Muslim extremist group that bombed the World Trade Center. I remember several socialist groups from the 60s and 70s that committed bank robberies, home invasions, murder and kidnappings.
Coud you give me more details on The Order. I've heard a lot of things about militia related groups, but most of it invariably turns out to be false propaganda.
And then you also have to address the bad apples. I would be a liar to claim that there are not crazies in the survivalist and militia movements. But most of these are solitary individuals. That wack that shot the two guards at congress comes to mind.
There are wacks on the left as well, the whole damn city of San Fransico comes to mind. Seattle is pretty bad too, gets the GenX libs.
<<Do you really feel that these fringe groups, who stockpile weapons of war and preach hatred and violence are safe? >>
Sure, what is so dangerous about them. Have you ever spoken with one? I have. They are just as dangerous as the Mormons, do the Mormons keep you up at night?
Can you give me some examples of constitutional rights groups that preach hatred? The clan and associated skin heads do, but you won't catch gun rights people anywhere near hatemongers like that.
Here is the constitutional rights speal, tell me the hate part, ok:
I demand my right to be protected under the constitution of the United States. I will not allow any person or government to take my guarnteed rights away from me. I will stand up for my God, my family and my country, against anyone trying to take these rights from me.
So, which part includes hate or violence, hmmm.
Now, I'm going to go on the offensive.
Libs use two main tatics in arguement. One is character assassination, they attempt this via name calling, and insinutating a lack of intelligence.
The second is a denial of logical fact. Libs don't think about issues they feel about them. And then, when you say this is wrong, they say you do it your way, I'll do it mine.
I can live with this, as long as this ignorant method of thought is not put into policy, as the libs have been trying all summer with thier gun control bills.
It is easy to see by your responses that you are not thinking about what you are commenting on. First, you miss the point, ie referring comparing Nazi tactics with genocide.
Second, you don't get all the information. ie assuming that I am one of the diabolical ATF supporters.
Third, you obviously are attempting standard liberal defense in your response to my comments on how they could have resolved the issure at Waco.
Also you are leaving openly defamatory threats, without supporting information. ie, your challenge of constitutional and gun rights groups as hate mongers.
You need to adjust your tactics to a message board. Build your argument so that they are supported logically, and with facts. Simply yelling "gun nut!" in a crowded college campus will not gather you support here.
It might help clear up some issues if you posted why you support gun control and repression of free idea by contitutional rights people. I'm not of the opinion that this is a "yes man" message board. I hate strings where everybody sits around and congratulates each other on a witty post. I want dissenting ideas, so that I may refine my own, and occasionally, change them.
As it stands, you've just been attacking other posters. Now, I know this is fun, but let us know your motivation at least. |
