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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: jbe who wrote (53441)	8/29/1999 12:52:00 PM
From: greenspirit	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Well Joan, I figured last nights agreement on an issue wouldn't last very long. :-) But perhaps you're correct in asserting that Universities have changed, due largely to the effect of capitalistic forces. Government schools or organizations like the IRS, would probably have been a better example. But please bear this in mind, I never said they would not change, or never change. Simply that the ability to change is held back or hampered without that "Sense of urgency". That's one of the main reasons intelligent people quit the teaching profession. Because they are frustrated by the pace of change in the system. They feel helpless when confronted with the beauracratic nature of the organization and unempowered to improve what they know needs improving. When all the workers, supervisors and managers feel a "sense of urgency", amazing change can happen in rapid order. Businesses that stay ahead and continue to grow and prosper have this sense as part of their culture to stay ahead of the competition. Universities typically change only when they absolutely have to. That's why even today very few of our large Universities have pushed down the walls to add online centers of learning. Something new dot.com will probably be the leader in e-commerce education, instead of Princeton, Yale or Harvard. Michael

To: jbe who wrote (53441)	8/29/1999 11:41:00 PM
From: nihil	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Joan, UHawaii is a very cheap school, getting more expensive, but still about $5000 a year tuition and fees. Honolulu doesn't have many jobs. But all of my 120 students this semester, except six are working full or part-time. At many expensive highly selective schools it is quite difficult to make enough working to pay your way through probably about $30,000 grand a year, but loans and scholarships are generally available. You will recall that the rich eastern schools had to settle a antitrust suit because they conspired to equalize the deals they made to students ("to make it possible for them to choose the school they liked best"). MIT refused to deal. But these schools are simply engaged in price discrimination. They redistribute from the rich kids to the poor (via scholarships). But god help you if you are one whose excellence isn't measured by SAT or ACT. You can't even buy your way into a great school. I believe that universities are doomed. Many profs (especially in English) are stark raving mad. Most good students want great careers (i.e. trade schools). Any one who wants an education can read some books and join a discussion group on the web. Web degrees are going to be so cheap that state universities will disappear since no one wants to subsidize them.