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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: epicure who wrote (53711)	8/31/1999 9:41:00 PM
From: Sidney Reilly	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

And the fact that THEY set fires and killed there own folks kinda lessens my sympathy for them. The victors write the history. Who was left to say who set the fires. The government opened fire first and started the exchange in which agents were injured and killed. Now we hear that incendiaries WERE used by the FBI although it was denied for years and even under oath to congress. So now why should we believe the FBI or bloody janet when they say the incendiaries did not start the fires. How about the tanks that ran into the walls of the compound knocked over the kerosene lanterns and that started the fire. We are living in a quasi-police state right now and everyone needs to wake up. How about the innocent women and children? Do you feel less sorry for them because they didn't believe like you. Perhaps if they were what? who deeply mistrusted the government you would feel more sorry for them?

To: epicure who wrote (53711)	8/31/1999 10:11:00 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

You know more about it than I think I know. From what I'm reading, there are a lot of still unanswered questions, some of which may--or may not--get answered in the trial or the congressional hearings. I am concerned that the FBI lied for so long about not using pyrotechnic grenades, and only admitted it when the facts became undeniable. I understand that the Texas Rangers recently disclosed that they had recovered at least one grenade case from the ruins. To their credit, they didn't destroy the evidence to protect the FBI. If the FBI has lied about that, it seems credible that they may have lied about some other things, though of course I have no proof of that yet. there were 3 delta force people there and they were observers. Whether they were observers or participants is one of the unanswered questions. By one report they recommended certain actions to Reno. This is more than observing. I hope we find out one way or another what their real role was. I don't know what you do with cultists who are kinda nuts and have lots of weapons. That "kinda nuts" may be more a result of government PR than truth. From some things I have read, they were actually fairly peaceful and quite normal people, not a cult in the way of the Jonestown group or the comet group in LA (I forget their name). And the fact that THEY set fires and killed there own folks kinda lessens my sympathy for them. This is one of the unclear issues which the trial or hearings may or may not clear up. Have you heard of the video "Waco - Rules of Engagement"? It has received some credible notice -- nominations for prestigious awards, some good reviews by non-flaky people, two thumbs up by Siskel and Ebert, showing in some mainstream film festivals. I have asked my library to get a copy, and if they do I will view it. It apparently raises some significant questions which shed doubt on the official version. The people who did it have some mainstream news show backgrounds -- a lot more credibility than Oliver Stone had when he did Roger and Me. It was done I think two years ago, but has had minimal publicity until quite recently. One of the interesting things they apparently report is that the four ATF agents who died were all killed by single bullet shots to the head. If true, that doesn't sound much like death in a shootout, does it? As for all the conspiracy stuff- the government acted stupidly, but there was no conspiracy (imo). I hope not. I don't like to think of our government engaging in conspiracies to hide the truth of what they have done wrong. But again, the trial and investigations will tell us more. Trials have a way of bringing out truths that people would like to hide. Or on the other hand of showing that claims, however good they sound in theory, are not soundly based. And as is said, even paranoid people can have enemies. For myself, I'm trying to keep an open mind. But we do know without any question that the FBI knowingly lied for years about at least one important fact. As a trial attorney, my general experience is that significant lies seldom come alone. More often, where there is one, there are more.