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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Michael M who wrote (54456)	9/3/1999 8:51:00 PM
From: Ilaine	Respond to of 108807

Michael, I agree that you and I have been arguing. I don't agree that I hammered you for stepping outside the bounds of PC. If you read my further post, it was your comments about Joan ("Joanie Baloney") and female wannabes that raised my ire. It was not you who called women stupid, it was Barrett, and him I jumped on. I would appreciate it very much if you would take the time to post evidence for males being trashed and stereotyped on the thread. I have no, none, zip, idea whether anyone tried to persuade E or anyone else anything by PM. If there is such a PM loop, I am out of it. E and I did argue, as we often do, and we disagreed, as we often do. And we had a good time, as we always do. I am not trying to throw you off the thread, Michael. I want it to be fun for you, and for me, and for everyone else.

To: Michael M who wrote (54456)	9/3/1999 11:03:00 PM
From: E	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

<<<E was, of course, entitled to change her mind. But don't try to tell me that you and other women didn't directly attempt to persuade her, both on the thread and in private communication. That, of course, is also your right. But why the charade the women don't want and seek to achieve a united front on what I call women's issues.>>> You may disbelieve me if you want, but no one attempted to "change my mind," or "persuade" me by PM. All discussion of that issue took place right here. I am not "trying to tell" you that, I am directly telling you that. I feel an unpleasant sensation in association with your inaccurate (IMO) characterization of the exchanges in which i was involved. Part of the reason for this unpleasant sensation is that I believed we had concluded that discussion with a mutually respectful understanding, and now feel foolish for having believed that.

To: Michael M who wrote (54456)	9/4/1999 3:28:00 AM
From: jbe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

Finally, I don't think I said all the women "wannabes" were men. Then what were the "wannabe" women who were not men? Hermaphrodites? Have we got any hermaphrodites here? Speak up, you all!

To: Michael M who wrote (54456)	9/4/1999 6:43:00 AM
From: Dayuhan	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

Some men prefer the company of women to men -- it's not a put-down, it's not an accusation, it's a fact. They're often interesting and very likable folks. Not all men on this thread fit the description. I'm not going to make a list for risk of offending someone left off, but certainly, IMO, Steven and Neo would be on any list. Hmmmm.... for one thing, I don't know if a preference for the company of women is enough to qualify one as a "female wannabe". In many places men who seem excessively preoccupied with seeking the company of other men are given that distinction. Do I prefer the company of women? It depends on the circumstances. Certainly in a bedroom I prefer the company of women. Or while dancing. In conversation, I generally find mixed company preferable; both males and females generally do their best in the presence of an audience of the opposite gender. And the games are fun to observe, if not quite as much fun to play. In a hockey rink I prefer the company of men, though I one knew a French-Canadian girl who could do amazing things with a puck, and even managed to make an asset of toothlessness.... but that's another story. Most of my better friends are male, and in their company I prefer an absence of females. On a hiking or kayaking trip I prefer males, and the small percentage of females who carry their own weight (not necessarily "male wannabes"). So it depends on the circumstances. Since this is a conversation, I like to keep it as it is, and I prefer to look at the thread as a collection of individuals, rather than dividing it along gender lines. It is entirely possible that I am more solicitous and less confrontational when dealing with he women here than I am with the men. This may be true in the flesh as well; there is no conscious effort in this direction, but we often do things without conscious effort. Probably a result of either residual chauvinist piggery or fear of castration. Take your pick. I expect women to be occasionally inconsistent and contradictory. I expect the same of men. We are people, not computers. Not that my computer is entirely consistent....