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Pastimes : The Truth about Waco -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: gao seng who wrote (526)	9/5/1999 12:26:00 AM
From: James F. Hopkins	Respond to of 1449

Gao; In looking at the beginning, and even ahead of that I don't see how the Administration would have caught any heat from the public. If they just said we want to avoid any chance of "a conflict interest" & now that a standoff has resulted, although we feel badly for the ATF and their losses, we need to take steps to prevent any type of personal ax grinding, which we understand might be extremely difficult resist when fellow officers are cut down we expect emotions to run high. The FBI and ( perhaps Texas Rangers ) will replace the ATF to resolve this conflict. ------------- I can't and I doubt many people can see where Reno had much if anything to do with the initial raid. If any thing crossed her desk prior to the first raid it very likely looked as routine as any thing else. But with the disaster of that raid she then should have known that putting the FBI in there with the ATF ( and their wounded pride ) was not wise at all. Most of the FBI officers resented it too, to them the general mind set was we are going in there to clean up the ATF mess, and going to have to listen to them moan and bitch about the way we do it, why weren't we called in to start with. ---------------- In short the historic rivalry between these two Agencies about authority and tactics is no secret to any law officer. While they can often work hand in hand there is going to be problems when you have to bring the FBI in after the fact of leaving them out of the loop until things went sour. ------------------ If she was going to insist on the ATF staying in there, then she should have just sent for more ATF , there was plenty more available heck we have built up a small army of ATF agents and that worries me too. ( I'm serious when I say it looks at least like the beginnings or fore runner of a Gestapo unit) Also I'm not to sure which master they serve, the CIA connections are fuzzy but they are there, from training right on down. -------------------- Did you know that the ATF was out at Fort Hood training for this particular raid ( not sure of the time spent I'd have to look it up but I think I remember it being over a month,) prior to the raid they had a complete mock up of the Branch Dividian complex out there and did 20 practice runs. This tie to the military and the Delta Force didn't just happen, and the Delta Force is for all practical purposes the real serious side of the CIA. From what I've seen I don't think This Davidian raid was just an isolated case when it comes to the ATF being in bed with CIA, and to me tahts serious enough that it warrants some investigation of it's own. -------------------- I'm an old Tug Master and Tankerman by trade, and lets say I get called in to clean up a mess or salvage something that some other idiot messed up, ( and it's happened more than once ) well I learned right off to get what info I could from them , then get them out of my hair. I don't want that bastard that just dumped 500 barrels of oil over board telling me how to cover his ass with the coast guard. ----------------------- Back to Waco all the other aside the normal reaction for most people if those were your personal friends killed in the heat of battle would be to collect some revenge. That alone would have been good enough grounds for Reno that even if she thought the ATF should stay she needed to at least rotate out the agents who were in on the raid, leadership and all, and of itself that type move would not have even had to look derogatory. A simple you guys did the best you could and need a break go home and rest, I can't risk the heat I'll catch any one of you over reacts or is even seen looking like that. -------------------------- I don't want to sound to soft on this, BUT as long as I live I also want to know just what ROOF man was doing at that window he just put three men in. I'm not alleging anything, but if we are to have an investigation that must be looked at. What he did at that window don't make sense. Just who & why were they picked, what sort of relation ship did they have with the upper echelon, lets remove all possible doubt that they may have been dissenters who knew to much about the boss. I'm not suggesting that in this case the ATF murdered some of it's own men, but I am saying the investigation is not complete unless this is checked out, as ROOF MAN at best was out of his mind. Dammm if I'd ever want to have someone like that backing me up. Something also needs to be done to sever or Make Public all connections the ATF has with the CIA in the future.. the Gestapo phenomena can happen , and ironically it can happen even without the main players knowing it These sort of things can come into existence with any concrete plans to make them so, they just result from one reaction leading to another until they are full blown and accepted as normal. Even the main players can get caught up in a game they don't really understand , some how the power of it all acts like an opiate and insulates or removes them from the reality of it, and creates a sort of inability to understand or visualize the longer term or broad results of their actions. --------------------- Like I said before this thing turned into a bonanza for every tyrant in the world , look at what the U.S. did to those poor people How is it that Reno and them couldn't see that, so as odd as my above paragraph about the opiate of power might sound I think it has some validity. I honestly do not think they would have used tanks had they had any concept of what this would result in doing to the image of the United States, they couldn't see it. The News Mongols are now hung up talking about the militia effect and McVay, and they can't seem to conceive the big picture either. I pictured Sadam Husseeene just bursting with joy over this when he saw that first tank. Or have we stoped caring what the rest of the world thinks ? If so why are we still spending money running Voice of America. Why send any aid anywhere , they will only think we are trying to bribe them or fatten them up for the kill. There is no way out with out holding some one accountable; at the very least we need a volunteer in the ATF or FBI to be a sacrificial lamb. Some one pass that last line on to Reno I'm tired of trying to infulance her. Jim