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Strategies & Market Trends : Asia Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dayuhan who wrote (9265)	9/10/1999 9:22:00 AM
From: Bosco	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 9980

G'day all - 1st, this is not directed at anyone in particular, but plz allow me to be so bold as to suggest that we try to refrain from flame baiting - I reckon that most people are not doing it intentionally, that we do so inadvertently b/c of the net effects <SG> - since I am sure the speakers on the subject [E Timor, and other hotspots, for that matters] are conscientious people. Ranting at each other doesn't help us to see the world clearly. I do admit that I am behaving poorly myself at times, but I ve tried my best to restrain myself by imposing self-excommunication <SG> with some people b/c our chemistries are so different despite my best effort to bridge the gap [sorry to mix metaphor!] Ahem, back to the on topic discussion. 1st, here are two links as the backdrop boston.com boston.com Steve, I think the Indonesia situation is a bit more complicated because of China. I think this is a rare situation that China may vote favor of an intervention. One should be mindful that this is Asia. So unlike Kosovo, the potential composition of the intervention team is unlike that of Kosovo, which is in NATO's backyard. If one carries this argument to the logical conclusion, Indonesian military should be wary that the incoming peacekeeping force may have a Chinese contingent! I doubt the US wants that to happen [well, I think I should go subtle here <SG>] best, Bosco

To: Dayuhan who wrote (9265)	9/10/1999 9:23:00 AM
From: Liatris Spicata	Respond to of 9980

Steven- Good Post. Thank you. Loved the link's last line! And frankly I wish you spent a bit more time explaining in a reasoned way why you think some of the things you do. I could find a few things to challenge you on, but I have to get to work. Maybe I'll get back to you, so don't let your guard down. And speaking of being un-nuanced, when I weighed in against the "intellectual level at which you operate", I wish I had put a 'sometimes' before the 'operate'. I actually tried to do that, but my 15 minutes were up. Larry

To: Dayuhan who wrote (9265)	9/10/1999 11:04:00 AM
From: Worswick	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 9980

Good morning Stephen. What a long wonderful post and how accurate in it's specifics. Congratulations upon your perceptions which in a more orderly and sane world I really believe would be right on. I mean that. However, ref. yours..."Indonesian: We didn't think the Dutch should have stolen our country. They did it anyway". I think I have to point out a gap perhaps in your thinking Steven. The Dutch didn't steal Indonesia. Indonesia didn't exist to steal before 1948. I believe "Indonesia" was created after the Dutch left in the 1940's... much like India and Pakistan were created, by the retreat of Empire.... later additions to "Indonesia" include other ex-colonial holdings as you well know. Are the "local" power structures in Indonesia happy by being ruled by parvenue, cleptocratic "democratic" soldiers? You betcha. Right? All those princely famlies, all those clerical famlies who have sucked up bile for the last fifty years and who have been bypassed by "progress". The dream of Indonesia will prove to be like water on sand. As I said two years ago... Indonesia (like India and Pakistan) are likely to fall apart and these optimistic yet awkward colonial constructs are not desinted to survive. In the end I fervently hope that we heed the siren song of our Vietnam experience - as a country - and that we determine exactly and precisely what our "exit" strategy is in Indonesia. That is, if we feel inclined to involve ourselves for "humanitarian" purposes in this land of shadows and vendettas. "Intervention" is likely to be like jumping with both feet into the middle of the Chinese Civil war in the 1947-48 period as the rocket goes up here. Hope you are well and thriving, Clark