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Politics : Evolution -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: TigerPaw who wrote (124)	9/13/1999 4:32:00 PM
From: Nate	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 69300

that is what predetermination is, but predetermination is not the loss of free will. you still have the right to make a choice but an all knowing being will still know the outcome. explain to me how that is not free will.

To: TigerPaw who wrote (124)	9/13/1999 4:38:00 PM
From: Null Dog Ago	Respond to of 69300

I can see where Nate's coming from on this, TP. You will make a decision of your own free will, and an all knowing God will already know what you'll decide. You would lose free will if God took that knowledge of your future decision and told you not to make it because it was unwise. You would lose free will, unless you were going to be contrary and say "no I'm gonna do it anyway", in which case an all knowing GOD would not even bother telling you not to do it because God would already know that you would make that decision too. It's not to say God has mapped out what decisions you will make by God's decision, but God already knows what you will freely decide before you do.

To: TigerPaw who wrote (124)	9/13/1999 9:46:00 PM
From: Akula	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 69300

I admit that I have not been able to follow this debate as well as I would wish (I went to school and you people wrote 200 messages - don't you have things to do!:-), but I have the sneaking suspicion that a post of mine spawned this debate way back in the teens. My view on the matter is this: If I can make a completely random decision then I have free will. If my position can be predicted from any point in the past, then the decision was not random and I have no free will. Thus, if God knows by prediction what I will do, then I cannot make an independent decision. If, however, God exists in my future, then He is already there when I make my decision. Thus God knows what I will do at a point possibly in my past, but not by prediction. I thus can have free will.