Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Biotech / Medical : GZMO -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: jeffbas who wrote (84)	9/15/1999 8:44:00 PM
From: sim1	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 438

You can obtain information on SAGE via their web site. genzyme.com

To: jeffbas who wrote (84)	9/16/1999 10:43:00 AM
From: scaram(o)uche	Respond to of 438

Jeff: Based on your long experience in this industry, what do you think would happen to the relative valuation of ENMD and GZMO, and over what time frame? Based on my long experience, I don't know much about valuing tracking stocks. Thus far, you seem much better at this sort of thing. It's clear that Henri wants to be the leader in immunotherapy of cancer (and I like the effort). Let's see what the Folkman data looks like. It will be of interest to see if the Science rumor is correct. ENMD.... you'll see my comments very infrequently in the thread.... mostly when the maniacs arrived. I've consistently said that it was way overvalued on a relative basis and on hype, and that ticked me off. However, relative valuations are rolling out much better now.... not entirely "fair" yet, but better. I know there's lots of wiggling in this answer. I just can't tell you anything more than that Rosenberg is throwing everything he has against melanoma, and that there is fierce drive among physician scientists right now to finally grab the handles on the surface of spontaneous cancers that can be effective targets for cytotoxic T cells. Basic primer in cancer immunology..... really simple, and parts may even be incorrect in the eyes of others...... viral- and chemical-induced cancers are often potently "antigenic". If you excise the tumor and let the animal rest (chemical-) or immunize with viral proteins (viral-), the same tumor is effectively rejected when the animal is challenged (viral-) or rechallenged (chemical-) with it. So..... question number one..... why does the tumor grow and kill the animal, when the tumor isn't resected? Why doesn't that strong immune response kick in and protect the animal? Labs are trying to push T cell subsets around using one lymphokine or another, trying to alter the balance of effector T cells and those that would regulate them. But, if you excise a spontaneous cancer (of recent origin) in animal models, allow the animal to rest a bit, and then rechallenge with the same tumor..... you generally don't see rejection. Observations are widely dispersed from this "mean" observation, and my summary might tick some off. But, this is my working frame.... spontaneous tumors are not potently immunogenic. So..... the rush now is to find either relatively weak antigens that are characteristic of cancers and magnify the responses against them (dendritic cells, adjuvants, immunizations under lymphokine conditions that favor the maturation of given T cell subsets) or to induce immune responses to "self" antigens that are relatively restricted to the normal tissue that represents the "cancer origin". Not a big believer in cancer vaccines, I nonetheless feel that, if there's a company with an interesting/promising program, it's GZMO. SAGE.... I've not only read the 10-K description, I've read it many times. Each time I've gotten a little closer to understanding it. To a classical serologist with a decent biochem background, this stuff just isn't intuitive. I didn't really understand the power of profiling until Bob Tepper (Thanks, Jim Silverman!) took the time to succinctly describe an application for me. So..... I'll take the fifth, and just indicate that I should go there and get a feel for the process. There are probably five lurkers out there who do have a good feel for it. Maybe one of them will join SI and clue us in. To address your AFFX versus SAGE question.... the AFFX business plan is Gillette-like, while SAGE is marketed as a complex, royalty-linked drug discovery platform. Rick