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To: The Duke of URL© who wrote (11960)	9/17/1999 12:30:00 AM
From: lml	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 19079

With all the banter going on here, I'm surprised no one has acknowledged or discussed the latest from Goldman Sachs regrading the future growth of e-commerce. For those who haven't seen . . . zdnet.com It should bring some response tomorrow at the open. JMO

To: The Duke of URL© who wrote (11960)	9/17/1999 12:46:00 AM
From: Mark Palmberg	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 19079

One of Bill's visions is to create cheap and easy to use software. Being a visionary can sometimes be looking at things as they are and changing them to things that will be. Now I KNOW you've never used a piece of MSFT software! Cheap it is, but not inexpensive (unless you're talking about IE, which is both cheap and inexpensive; it's a dog of a piece of software). Bill looked at something that was (Xerox's GUI), and made it into something that would be...a POS (Windows 3.1, 95, etc., etc.). In all your protestations you've yet to name one piece of software, or any concept in modern consumer computing, that Bill Gates has come even close to innovating. Which is not entirely unexpected, after all. Go get 'em, Duke! I eagerly await another installment of your screenplay. May I have a part? Mark

To: The Duke of URL© who wrote (11960)	9/17/1999 10:17:00 AM
From: MeDroogies	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 19079

Of course, you're wrong on virtually all counts. Sony invented Beta, which WAS a better format than the alternative, but failed to market it properly. So you lose there. Ampex was first to market with the videotape market - they were visionaries - where are they now? Beta was the best, but poorly marketed...where is it now? Dell didn't CREATE that delivery system...he copied it and made it work well...not to mention that he started out by undercutting pricing. I'm not saying that's bad, but it helps make your system look good/better, because you can flood the market. Finally, Gates didn't visit Xerox PARC. And I never said Jobs didn't steal GUI (he did). But that just further supports my point. Gates had no "epiphany", he saw something cool, realized he needed to catch up, and tricked Jobs into "sharing". Jobs was dumb. Gates was smart. Still....not a visionary. You didn't respond to Gates' own comments about 156k memory or his initial response to the internet. And, (help others...I'm not 100% sure of this) but I'm 95% sure that MSFT DIDN'T write the 1st OS for Apple. Visionaries rarely get to be the richest guys...but they help MAKE the richest guys. The geniuses behind MSFT and AAPL were really Allen and Wozniak. Allen is right behind Gates now and is even further out on the cutting edge in his investments....Wozniak has taken a more "public service" approach to life. IF visionaries were the ones who made the money, Edison would've been a gazillionaire, Einstein incredibly wealthy, and Richard Feynman even more so. Success isn't about vision. It's about execution. Do it well and you'll succeed.