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Biotech / Medical : GUMM - Eliminate the Common Cold -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Kevin Podsiadlik who wrote (928)	9/19/1999 11:45:00 PM
From: DanZ	Respond to of 5582

Kevin, Regarding the lozenges, the Makers of Kal study says: Zinc orotate lozenges were used as a substitute for zinc gluconate lozenges because zinc orotate did not have an objectionable taste in preliminary taste tests. It goes on later to say: The failure of zinc orotate lozenges appears to be attributable to the choice of zinc orotate. Zinc orotate is an insoluble compound of zinc at oral pH having a stability constant of log K1 = 6.42 at 25øC.(19) Consequently, zinc orotate releases no Zn2+ ions at oral or tissue pH. I think it is clear why the lozenges did not work. Regarding the nasal spray, the Makers of Kal study says: Nasal spray contained 10 mMol zinc and was used aggressively every 15 to 30 minutes. This number of mM per dose is equivalent to that given during the Zicam study that the abstract says resulted in a reduction in the duration of the common cold to 3.29 +/- 1.03 days p < 0.001. In the Zicam study, the gel was applied only every four hours. The Makers of Kal study says: Zinc gluconate nasal spray failed because nasal sprays are quickly removed from locus of infection by mucous secretions as shown by Aoki.(20) Gel Tech tried 40 different formulas before settling on what is now Zicam. It is my understanding that some of the earlier formulas weren't absorbed fast enough and resulted in the problem noted here. The final formula is absorbed fast enough so that this isn't a problem. The Makers of Kal study also says: Additionally, the out-flow of electrons from the mouth-to-nose BCEC repels Zn2+ ions from the surface of nasal tissues. Howard posted earlier that: The fact is that the zinc ions will not adhere to the epithelial cells unless their charge is affected by the matrix and that matrix is proprietary. I assume that this is why Zicam is reported to work and the solution in the Makers of Kal study didn't. All these issues relate to my comment earlier when I said it's not a trivial case to imitate Zicam. GelTech has a patent pending on the matrix, and unless a company can figure out another way to suspend the zinc and affect it in such a way that it binds properly, it may not work. The study that you posted demonstrates this.

To: Kevin Podsiadlik who wrote (928)	9/20/1999 1:18:00 AM
From: out_of_the_loop	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 5582

Kevin: I do not mind your posting on the GUMM thread at all. I know of that link and of that whole site. I have for months. An aqueous non-gel formation without the matrix that helps the Zinc stay attached to the epithelium may indeed not be effective. As I have stated, I spoke with Dr. Davidson about the ability of other companies to copy Zicam. He felt comfortable that they could not do it effectively. Again, I restate that they had about 40 formulations over several years until they got one that worked. The reason is probably that matrix. Good night.