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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Michael M who wrote (56268)9/27/1999 4:20:00 PM
From: Neocon  Respond to of 108807
 
Very strange, I checked them this time...Here, I will post directly!:

I don't want to have an enemy. I do not consider, for example, Mark Silver to be my enemy, even though he is a liberal. I do not consider DJB, on the "To Be A Liberal" thread, to be my enemy, even though he is a liberal. Conservatives have not "dribbled in nonsense", they have set the agenda. The Reagan/Bush years, rather than leading to general war and economic disaster, led to the termination of the Cold War and the prosperity of the 90's. Before Clinton could totally squander the economic legacy, the Republicans captured the Congress and kept him to a relatively conservative agenda. As a bonus, concern with support on Wall Street led Clinton to keep on Greenspan and appoint Rubin, and thus to steer a sensible course. Clinton may have been a fake centrist, but his worst initiatives, such as health care, failed, and he signed welfare reform and a quasi- balanced budget plan. His rhetoric, and the options that it has framed, has largely been conservative. We have set the terms of debate. In that sense, as William Kristol said years ago, we won! Just as the New Deal was the guiding consensus after the War, and even Eisenhower accepted it, so the Reagan Legacy has dominated the last 20 years. What is that consensus? An emphasis on personal responsibility; a renewed faith in the efficacy of free markets; a sense of the historic role of the United States in promoting free institutions; the questioning of the "nationalization" of every issue, and an emphasis on state and local initiatives; a greater willingness to use "values language", and even invoke religious faith, in public discourse; a sense of the limitations of governmental initiatives; and a growing sentiment that government should be downsized, and taxation should be simplified. This should give you a sense of the "rational agenda", and insofar as it has been advanced(for example, by instituting welfare reform and approving NAFTA), there have been positives in the last seven years. Mostly, Clinton has been thwarted in messing things up, and the economy has taken care of itself, which, after all, is what capitalism is all about. In the international sphere, it looks like Clinton has squandered many of the fruits of the victory in the Cold War, and left us in a weaker position militarily and diplomatically than he should have. In the sphere of institutions and values, he has disgraced his office and made the country complicit in his wanton disregard for truth, discipline, or even ordinary discretion. The damage he has done the office of the Presidency is difficult to calculate......




To: Michael M who wrote (56268)9/27/1999 4:25:00 PM
From: Lizzie Tudor  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 108807
 
I think one of you is on the new SI, and one on the old.

I am on the new SI (one of the 4 people that prefers the new site, lol)... www.siliconinvestor.com, and I can't see links to the old techstocks site. Same error - unable to find document.

Part of the problem is all these url's... which is right? There is techstocks, exchange2000 (remember that), beta.techstocks, siliconinvestor, etc. If you hit the right one you can see both types of posts I believe... let me know if you find out what that is....



To: Michael M who wrote (56268)9/27/1999 4:32:00 PM
From: Neocon  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 108807
 
The Soviet economy was not near collapse, but it couldn't keep up with our commitment to increasing military spending and funding research and development, especially the Strategic Defense Initiative. With military spending at about 25% of Soviet GNP, increasing consumer unrest, and the explosion of the black market, reformers were able to gain control of the government, in an effort to lull the West into complacency, and to resuscitate the economy. However, as glasnost shattered the last bits of Soviet legitimacy, and perestroika proved to be too little, too late, the system began to crumble. Gorbachev mainly survived because of his relative success in dealing with Reagan, but eventually the Politburo sought his removal, and it was the Russian people, most especially the people of Moscow, who supported Yeltsin who brought the system crashing down.

As for President Bush not "finishing" Desert Storm, there was no way to preserve the coalition should we attack Baghdad, and there was no public support for a long term occupation. With Shi'ites and Kurds looking for an opportunity to separate, Iran waiting to take advantage of the situation, and Turkey adamant that it would not put up with a rump Kurdistan, there was little choice but to pull back, and hope that Saddam was toppled in a coup, which seemed a reasonable scenario, and would have likely occurred had not Saddam behaved swiftly and ruthlessly against members of his family and entourage.

The primary fiscal irresponsibility in the '80s was that of the largely Democratic Congress. Economic activity and tax revenues both increased as a result of tax cuts, but the spending cuts were not there. Besides, the impact of the deficits has been overblown, and many of the predicted effects have not materialized, such drying up the capital markets.

The first issue that Clinton addressed was the attempt to get the military to accept gays, and the big project of the first term was the socialization of one seventh of the economy, i.e. health care. Whatever these actions may be, they are not centrist. Republicans have held his feet to the fire on welfare reform and debt reduction.

You are correct that he hired them, which is to his credit. But they were never meant to have the impact on economic policy that they did, rather, they were means to reassure Wall Street, and it is mainly because other initiatives faltered so badly that they became the leading economic lights of the administration.

Since no one has advocated killing the sick and poor, I will ignore that section. No one has proposed nuking the Chinese, but they have deplored giving them free- reign to steal our technology. Practically everyone across the spectrum except Pat Buchanan and Richard Gephardt supported NAFTA and GATT. Since the Japanese and other "Asian Tiger" economies are still in the dumper, and the European economy is sluggish, I do not know what you are talking about when claiming the he has "done as well" with Japan and other world economies.

I do not propose "putting a religious agenda" into politics. I do propose not shying away from values discourse, and that also means not hiding religion in the attic.

As for the economy, yes, it mostly manages by itself. That is how capitalism works. Macroeconomic policy can affect things, but fortunately, Clinton was not able to do much. The recession lasted for seven months, we were pulling out of it before the election, but mysteriously the figures were not released until after. Given that Democrats were predicting another Great Depression in the '90s, due to the long term effects of Reagan's policies, and given the dearth of achievement of the current administration, it only seems fair to give Reagan the lion's share of the credit for setting the terms in the '80s.

Clinton has degraded military preparedness, and run a largely reactive foreign policy, one that merely puts out brush fires and delays decisions. His adventure in Kosovo was poorly run, and ended up getting about the same deal as Milosevic had offered in the first place. Meanwhile, he damaged relations with Russia and China. I do not know where you get the idea that he has been especially successful with North Korea, we just bribed them for temporary pacification.

By the way, the only reason that Clinton can claim to have reduced government was by the winding down of the military consequent upon the Cold War.

Anyway, the main thing you have to face is that Clinton has been fairly irrelevant to the decade. He got few domestic initiatives through, and many of his so- called foreign triumphs are dubious. For example, the accords on Northern Ireland seem to be falling apart, troops stationed in Bosnia seem to be indefinitely committed, and the KLA is refusing to turn over weapons, and American sponsored loans to Russia seem to have been misappropriated.

Meanwhile Clinton has disgraced his office, and lowered the standards by which we evaluate officeholders. If you do not think that that is very real damage to the country, then you are mistaken.