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Strategies & Market Trends : DAYTRADING Fundamentals -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: - who wrote (4551)	10/2/1999 3:51:00 PM
From: keith massey	Respond to of 18137

Could someone please clear up the double printing of orders for me. For example...two orders for 3,200 go through back to back at the same price. I got this message back from Dave but wonder if anyone can confirm. I just can't understand in the example below why the MM would bother filling you. To: keith massey (10766 ) From: Dave Osterfeld Saturday, Oct 2 1999 3:37PM ET Reply # of 10767 .....Fourth, what I've seen often, is the double prints on limit orders. I want to buy ABC at "x" and the MM has no shares in inventory. He needs to bid at "x" and when he gets hit by another MM or an ECN his buy is recorded as one trade. Then he turns around and sells them to you or I to complete the transaction. Perhaps he needs to show that the transaction was completed from his inventory since there's the payment for order flow for so many discount brokerages. I saw this double counting back when I traded for a friend and always bought with limit orders and coule see time and sales and the prints would be almost simultaneous. I see a similar thing with apparent institutional orders, where a MM takes in a lot of shares, often the only guy on the bid. And after some period of time I'd see a print for 25K or 50K shares at the current ask, then perhaps a repeat of the process. I assume he wants to print the larger order and make the spread in case the ask were to start declining where he couldn't print above the price he was buying the shares he had built up. Make any sense?

To: - who wrote (4551)	10/2/1999 5:06:00 PM
From: KM	Respond to of 18137

I agree with that view on ISLD vs. ARCA for the same reasons you mention.

To: - who wrote (4551)	10/2/1999 7:22:00 PM
From: August	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 18137

To all with experience with ARCA/ISLD/Cyber-X . Hi Palo Alto, in response to my question >>>In #reply-10547130 you said, "ARCA... especially if you trade large it's a godsend" Could you elaborate why ARCA is a god send compared to ISLD, if you trade large? <<< you said >>>Could I direct you to some of my early posts on the Daytrading Fundamentals thread? Might help to look at the thread summaries... they are broken out in there. Explains how to use ARCA as a "vacuum cleaner" (with limit orders) to move in/out of larger positions. If you have trouble finding them, or still have questions, just send me a PM. <<< 1) I went back to all your messages within several months prior to your response. I did not find your reasoning why ARCA was better, especially for large orders. Could you point out which posts you have in mind? 2) Could you explain why ARCA is better to use 'as a "vacuum cleaner" (with limit orders) to move in/out of larger positions'? Why don't ISLD work the same way? 3) Would Cyber-X with it claim of routing to multiple MM's and ECN's simultaneously allow easier fill for larger position? I am not endorsing Cyber-X by any means. I have never tried them, because so many people had horrible experience with them, including a question of safety of the money at Cyber. Thanks in advance.