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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: E who wrote (57790)	10/7/1999 9:22:00 PM
From: greenspirit	Respond to of 108807

E, since you seem genuinely puzzled by the rudeness of Zoltan. Allow me to construct a little DD in order to showcast how your tone could be interpreted as rudeness. The Reagan conversation started here...(pleasant enough) Message 11392238 The back and forth was rather pleasant and interesting. Then you posted this. Message 11402025 I believe most people would see that post as condescending. But Neo responded with civility. Then you continued... Message 11402242 Then these... Message 11415501 Message 11424678 Message 11424764 Message 11425728 Before these posts, no one that I noticed spoke rudely or condescendingly toward you (but I may have missed something). And Zoltan hadn't even entered the conversation yet (not that I approve of his name calling). But as a recent poster here so rudely put it toward me. "You reap what you sew". It seems to me, when people agree with someone they tend to forgive, or not see rude postings, but when they disagree, they act surprised at the rude responses by others. As an example, I have never once called anyone a rude name, such as "idiot" or "fool" in the nearly 4 years I've been posting on SI. Yet have been the recipient of many such names here. It doesn't really bother me much, since I see it as a reflection of the posters lack of emotional intelligence and inability to formulate clear persuasive thinking than anything I have said. However, I have not seen you ask them to tone it down or request they stop. So why would you expect others to do the same? Michael

To: E who wrote (57790)	10/7/1999 11:09:00 PM
From: Jacques Chitte	Respond to of 108807

> Though I did, I admit, feel discomfited by the evidence that his boorishness seemed appropriate to certain of my friends. < Imo I saw very little such evidence. There is a difference between approval (I use this as a synonym for a judgment of appropriateness) and holding one's tongue. (Or typing finger.) Dum taceant consentiunt does not apply. It is near-certain to me that those friends who did not stand up to be counted disapproved of the behavior in question. However two factors need to be considered. 1) It was not their fight. Indeed speaking up on a side's behalf could most correctly be considered "horning in". I for one am very wary of butting into a dialog - unless I either know both participants well enough or have something so innocuous to say that I don't feel I'd be hindering that dialog. 2) There are sometimes consequences to standing up to be counted. It can be like stepping into a line of fire to protect the target. Someone who'll get nasty in a public forum won't hesitate to hose down any defenders. And some have more mental Kevlar than others, lol. Maybe this is a triumph of comfort over courage ... but I'm prepared to argue otherwise.

To: E who wrote (57790)	10/7/1999 11:34:00 PM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

I did not ask you for an apology. I did not even insist that you did something wrong. I said that offending people goes with the territory, particularly with such a view as you hold, which is undeniable. That some, being thus offended, might lose their cool also goes with the territory. Given that, and the fact that Zoltan and I have a prior relationship that is cordial, was reason enough for me to hesitate to intervene, and to soften the tone of the intervention. On the other hand, I did intervene, because it seemed to me that he had pushed things past a limit. I have never said that serious discussion should give no offense. I have said that one should not be surprised when it does, which is why some flexibility is required, and why I do not mind the hockey threads.....