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Pastimes : A CENTURY OF LIONS/THE 20TH CENTURY TOP 100 -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (663)	10/22/1999 4:40:00 PM
From: Bill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 3246

Get the generals out of there. They did nothing but follow orders. And Reagan is no worse than 2nd.

To: Neocon who wrote (663)	10/22/1999 5:40:00 PM
From: greenspirit	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 3246

Neo, you get right back to this computer now and put Dr. Martin Luther King on that list or else! :-) stanford.edu Michael

To: Neocon who wrote (663)	10/22/1999 6:26:00 PM
From: Michael M	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 3246

Not a BAD top 20.....not bad at all. Deserving of a counter top 20. Mine includes probable ineligibles under your original parameters. Oh, well. 1. Churchill (can't imagine him far from top of any list) 2. FDR (a lot I didn't like, and yet.....) 3. Mao (not ALL bad for world's most populous nation) 4. John XXIII (took oldest and largest Christian religion and gave it a good shake - all dust yet to settle) 5. Ike (as post war president, NOT a military commander. Nat. Defense Highway system possible greatest construction project in history, with effects to match) 6. Reagan (reasons cited endlessly here and on feelies last few weeks) 7. Gorby (far more a passive role than Reagan, but, the dance required a partner) 8. Marshall (saved the victory) 9. MacArthur (duty, honor, country -- three wars) 10. Nimitz (talk about a come-back win) 11. Ataturk (imagine Turkey as hardcore religious state - you may want to move him up) 12. Adenauer (right guy, right time, right place) 13. Thatcher (Reagenesque in many ways, maybe ahead of him in some) 14. John Paul II (Made the Catholic church more than a "homie" outfit - firm hand on the wheel) 15. Deng (if Mao was China's great revolutionary, then Deng was China's great evolutionary) 16. Allen Dulles (hard to run the world without spies) 17. Yeltsin (no great shakes, IMO, but, the very fact he's kept other dudes out of the job may be credit enough) 18. David Sarnoff (the effect of commercial broadcasting in America can't be overlooked) 19. Salk/Sabin (because it's nice to wipe out a disease - many have forgotten what a scourge polio was) 20. Disney (Walt kept the fairy tale alive in the century and brought it to kids of all ages, all around the world)

To: Neocon who wrote (663)	10/22/1999 7:07:00 PM
From: jbe	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 3246

Your list, IMHO, is much too unbalanced, Neo! 4 American Presidents.4 American military men (not counting Eisenhower). 2 British Prime Ministers. 2 German Prime Ministers. 4 Russians in all (but no Lenin, no Stalin), including two Presidents (Gorbachev, Yeltsin); 1 dissident physicist (Sakharov); one dissident writer (Solzhenitsyn). And, finally, bringing up the rear, 1 Czech playwright+ President (Havel), and one French General +President (de Gaulle). Not one African, not one Latin American, not one Asian!! Not one person notable for creative achievements: Havel is there not because of his plays, but because of his political activities; Solzhenitsyn is there because of his descriptions of the Stalinist concentration camps, not because of his artistry. (Seems kind of odd, in a way, to say that the man who described the concentration camps was more influential than the man who built them! Oh, well...) Not one person notable for revolutionary inventions, or for ideas that changed the world... Politicians, politicians, politicians.... Tsk, tsk. And those numbers -- are you really trying to rank these guys? If so, why is Chester Nimitz No. 3? How many people do you know who can actually tell you 1) who he was, not to speak of 2) what he did that was so influential. Dukes up! Joan