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Pastimes : A CENTURY OF LIONS/THE 20TH CENTURY TOP 100 -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: jbe who wrote (672)	10/22/1999 8:43:00 PM
From: Michael M	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 3246

Dukes up it is! Although you critiqued Neo's list and not my superior one, I will fill in until he pulls himself together after reading all the bad news about snakes that Ish gave him. I have already noted agreement with you that the Bad Boys should be on the list. I slipped Mao on mine under the guise of "good guy" for China -- there is a case for that, IMO. However, if world influence is a determinant, I am inclined to restrict the list quite severely -- almost to the point that if the person had nothing to do with WWI, WWII or the Cold War, they're going to have a real tough time making the list. That list should be way overweighted with Yanks, Brits, Germans, Russians, Japanese and Chinese. On a world scale few others have mattered. And, IMO, the politicians and generals (and conscripts) get to be on the list -- not the philosophers, painters and composers. 90+ percent of the people in the world don't know squat about 20th century philosophers, painters and composers -- they fully understand and are influenced by a tank clattering down main street. AND, Take the case of Martin Luther King, Jr. Influence in the U.S. was huge. Importance of the cause was huge. Huge influence on the rest of the world. Actually not, IMO. Nelson Mandela. Wonderful man. Wonderful leader. On the other hand -- a western media darling. Preceded by other African blacks who routed the Europeans in Kenya, Zimbabwe, etc. Impact on South Africa was huge. The world -- I think not. "Africans" -- MAYBE Nasser. Asians -- I have a few and could easily add more. Latin Americans -- I don't think so. Scientific/medical discoverers -- probably a very worthy list form this group alone. Whoever invented/discovered what to tame the dreaded root canal.....you have ALL my votes! Just a few comments to keep the discussion warm, Joan. If the scotch tasting discussed earlier on "feelies" goes well, I may come roaring back later with some really strongly held opinions and cool insights. Hit me with your best shot..... (actually more of a musical tease for Neo, not a challenge for you, Joan). How about a Chechnya update on one of the threads where I'm welcome? I'm interested. MM

To: jbe who wrote (672)	10/25/1999 2:31:00 PM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 3246

If the Second World War was the battle for the soul of the world that I think it was, than all of those who were arguably essential to winning it decisively rate high on the list, regardless of nationality. Similarly if the struggle with Communism was the next most important event of this century. In any event, the Third World has not had much impact on history yet, and I am not constructing a "quota list". I already explained that I am making a list of good guys first, although I may make a list which encompasses mere influence later...I certainly would be curious to see your top ten or twenty, though...