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To: Mark Bartlett who wrote (43639)	10/23/1999 1:45:00 PM
From: goldsnow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116759

Your "Ramble" about US nonwithstanding the admirable reasons behind it, completely ignores The only Real Economics ever known to "living seas", "living jungles", "living societies" that is eat or be eaten....No one would show US any mercy when the time will come....(as it surely will) There are symbiotic relations, such as US-Canada, US-Europe and on, that is not "friendship", lions do not kill at water-hole...

To: Mark Bartlett who wrote (43639)	10/23/1999 6:33:00 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 116759

I think we're thinking along the same lines Mark, if not totally in agreement on the extremes. First, a few more comments on Europe and what they face in the near future. IMO(and others), ANY NATION must share one common bond, that being at least a written language, and preferably a common spoken tongue as well. Even with the differing dialects that exist in the Chinese and Arab worlds, each of those languages share at least a common written form. And in Europe, some proposed Esperantu as a common language that Europeans could share. Now it is possible that if everyone is raised multi-lingual, this may overcome some of the problems of communication. However, it exacerbates the problem of overcoming nationalists bias or favoritist cultural politics of exclusion that might create suspicion amongst the junior members of the EU. And in making the comparison with the US, let's not forget that the United States is a country that was created through major warfare and conquest (shameful though that fact may be to some) that forced marginal populations to conform or die. And what part of the non-Anglo population that wasn't conquered, came from immigrants who fully understood the obligation they had to learn English (or at least insist their children learned it). I truly dread the prospect of additional war or severe socio-political unrest breaking out in Europe, but that seems to be an inevitability before Europe truly unifies. Either that, or generations will have to pass by. As for the US being dependent on "cheap" foreign labor, this is not only true of the US, but also Japan (investing in China and Thailand), but also Europe with their imported foreign labor doing jobs apparently the natives don't want to do (why else is there a 10% unemployment rate in Europe). It is the way of things Mark... societies/countries have to evolve through various stages, from agrarian to industrial and eventually to technology based. Infrastructure has to be built and whole generations educated to participate in the world that is being created by the more developed nations. This is also true within a country as experienced by the US. In the 1800's some 70% of the US population was engaged in Agriculture. That figure is now around 1-2% or lower as Americans moved to the cities to work at better paying jobs. We see the same thing in manufacturing occurring during the 30's to 60's and now that is moving offshore to industrially developing nations as the US becomes a Information/Managerial economy, providing our business expertise to corporate subsidiaries located overseas. That just the way it works. I saw it happen in the small agricultural community that I grew up in. But when I look around this world, we seem to get a lot more out of this world than others, with much less effort. I think you answered your own question about what makes an economy strong. And I agree with your answer. For me, this board is not just about monitoring the price of gold. It is about preserving value systems on a global scale - including our own. I agree. It is clear to me, that the US's present goal is to dominate the world. One way of doing that is through the use of their dollar as the world's reserve currency. In perpetuity, the value of something will always be tied to the US dollar. I strongly disagree. The US was pretty much left in this position of supremacy due to the almost utter destruction of every other European and Asian economy after WWII. We dominated the world THEN and accounted for a full 50% of global GDP. Had we wished it, it would have taken very little to unleash Patton on the Russians as he wanted, or MacArthur on the Chinese during the Korean War. Clearly the popular and political will was not there to "dominate" the world. Nope... we were more interested in doing business and making money, espousing free-trade principals that would cause ALL NATIONS to become so entwined economically that no nation would dare risk global war (or couldn't muster the popular support to follow that goal). Now if you care to say that the US would like every other nation to adher to the same political and personal liberties that our constitution stipulates, then I would have to say the US must plead guilty. The only way that an open society likes ours can truly be secure is if every other nation obligates itself to those liberties and freedoms and is accountable to its people. The only way that the US is dominating the world is by permitting the individual to realize his full potential for success based upon the merits of his skills and abilities. All opponents will be assimilated. As for your story, it sounds to me that your gov't "reminded" our gov't who there "friends" really are and acted appropriately. And as for cultural imperialism, need I remind you how the US has been culturally "invaded" by Canadian artist, from William Shatner to Celine Dion to Alanis Morrisette to SCTV?? Hmmm........ <VBG> Finally, all relations between nations are normally based on competition. Clausewitz stated that "war is politics by other means". Well, we all know that economics drives politics so we find ourselves coming round full circle. Fortunately, competition is good and weeds out the inefficient and unproductive elements of society. The goal is to ensure that the constant economic warfare (eg: French tariffs on US beef?) does not become physical warfare. Regards, Ron