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To: goldsnow who wrote (43658)	10/23/1999 9:09:00 PM
From: Ahda	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116762

Goldsnow it depends on what your idea of civilized is . Mother nature has great appreciation for brawn in the wild animal world natures reamoves the less able. In the world of man brawn unless you are sports nut does not mean all. I have half brother who resides in Canada comfortable small man tiny man and kind man who achieved mucho comfort for he and his family . Yet he would go out of his way to help people and did get burnt a few times. He has lived well, much of this was do to respect of all people and the will to help. I honestly feel in the animal world there is kindness too for usually the older and less agile and the younger not fully developed are preyed upon. Both keep the populous down to affordable ecology. In the human world sometimes if you go into a convalescent home you wonder is this kind or cruel?

To: goldsnow who wrote (43658)	10/23/1999 11:12:00 PM
From: Mark Bartlett	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116762

goldsnow, << Does "Civilized" mean that you cook your meat, not that you don't eat?.>> In a mature society, I think it means attempting to ensure that most are at lease minimally fed, housed, have access to medicine and educated, to the extent that you can, without destroying the capacity of that society to function. You will never get them all, but IMO more can be done. <<"you" even insist on raises every year that you do not donate to less fortunate...>> You have no idea what I do and do not do with my resources - and I have no intention of detailing it here either. But I will say as I reflect back on my life, I am generally satisfied with my contribution thus far. No one person can do it all - but all it takes is each one of us to do a little. <<<<I thought we were civilized? ....Lets examine this superficial thought ..... Competition between lion prides ...... Civilized?-just Rhetoric that changes nothing in Compete and Win (or lose)economic game of survival of the fittest>>>> Goldsnow, we are not a pride of lions - if this assessment of humankind is pervasive, then we are in trouble. Sounds like a Lord of the Flies mentality, to me. I am not suggesting we all have to give up our standard of living. The point I was trying to make - but perhaps was not as clear as I could have been, is that it is ultimately in our best interests, as the economic stewards of this globe, to make sure the booty is shared a little more. To do otherwise, is just going to breed continued wars, distrust and global unrest, with long-term consequences that none of us want. The "west" may have superior military power (and I am glad we do), but there is still plenty of fire power around this globe. It could be unleashed at any time. IMO if the "economic losers" decide they have nothing to lose - they just might use it. I think the average person in this world is generally content if their work provides them with adequate food, decent shelter, have good access to education; a safe place to raise their families and are free to express themselves. I also believe that most people will give something back to their community, given a chance. To me, that list does not look all that impossible. Democracy is the best form of government - the fact that it provides the greatest benefits to most of its participants, is testimony to that. But that does not mean "democracy" is perfect or can not be made better. Like most things, it evolves. It will not happen in my lifetime, but I hope that the young children of this world are beneficiaries of global peace, contentment and prosperity. Have a good evening, MB

To: goldsnow who wrote (43658)	10/24/1999 7:47:00 AM
From: Bobby Yellin	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116762

I think you are looking at only one side of equation..how can you explain when there are natural disasters,so many individuals feel empathy and send donations? how many people have served in an army and have never fired a shot? ie how many little kids in Africa killed other little kids in Africa not because they were lions but because they were threatened with their own death and still remained innocents? who knows..maybe the world is balanced..ie how many people would want to do what Bill Gates has done to achieve his incredible fortune..who knows as he becomes older maybe another side will emerge..he appears to have started the process of giving back.. how many people are scared of Joe's Kennedy's acquisition of wealth and the legacy he passed on to his heirs..talk about tragedy..I guess also ..all the good works for common good