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Pastimes : Jesus -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: O'Hara who wrote (1274)	10/28/1999 2:53:00 PM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4775

Shalom - THE ROCK spoken of is not Jesus or Peter... Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. The ROCK that Jesus will build His Church on is : The Revelation of Christ that comes only through the Holy Ghost Psalms 127:1 Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

To: O'Hara who wrote (1274)	10/28/1999 6:55:00 PM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4775

Shalom... I blew my last post to you !! I did enough talking but did not GIVE you what I originally intended to give you... The ROCK is the Revelation that Jesus Is the Christ (as you have said) and so I added nothing to your point except more words BUT I forgot to say HOW WE KNOW FOR SURE !! Because God in His perfect wisdom " Created Language " Adam was created a " SPEAKING ADULT " although he NAMED the Animals yet Adam did not invent language... nor did men at the Tower of Babel Rather they grouped themselves together according to the different languages that God Gave them. Jesus decided to commit the Gospel to Writing.. The Old Testament was recorded in Hebrew first.. Now lest anyone would decide that Hebrew is the "Holy Language" God in Wisdom wrote the New Testament in Greek. Greek is BETTER than ENGLISH :-}!!! ENGLISH is a Horrible language and has caused many of us a lot of confusion. What other language could a man say " He put his hand in hid pocket " and not know if we are talking about one person .. two persons.. or three :-} === However Greek is Great === In Greek there is Male and Female and Neuter FORMS of each word. Much more sophisticated than vulgar English. *=== The word ROCK* is in the NEUTER and can not mean a man Here is another example of confusion that is cleared in Greek Text. John 10:30 I and my Father are one Some have tried to say that Jesus taught that He and the Father are the same PERSON but the word "ONE" is in the neuter and not the male gender so that the verse could been translated more accurately John 10:30 I and my Father are one thing Same substance or object but not same person - no Male gender indicated in either verse. That is the PROOF that you are right in your exegesis of the word "rock" as God given Revelation and not Peter. You may have known this anyways but I believe it is the only way the two views are sorted out as to which one is RIGHT FOR SURE !**

To: O'Hara who wrote (1274)	10/29/1999 9:21:00 AM
From: maouse	Respond to of 4775

Good morning Shalom: In its context it still seems that he is commanding them to be the ones to hold the key. Rock = Father's Word. Key = Jesus, ie that living Word. IE. the key to the father is through the son. Pretty common theme in NT. Its not rocket science, although some would have it be more confused. your rev quotes are only a reference/description of God... by the Holy Spirit (as I believe they are one, so it is a self description to me). Key of David is a reference for Jews. As a designation of who will be saved amoungst them. Personally, I do not believe that the same thing that saves the Jews in Rev. is the same thing that saves Christians in Rev. Jews will be saved by the covenant that they were under, accordingly to whether they lived by it or not. Not all Jews are bad in the eyes of God, and Rev. speaks specifically of those which will be saved. However, a new covenant has been formed, and his name is the topic of this thread. To call Jesus the savior of the Jews I believe is incorrect. Especially since those before him would have no chance to redeem themselves or turn to him (whichever you prefer needs to be done). Those (Jews)that were saved and in heaven before Christ are not accounted for by the Key. So is Adam redeemed? By Christ, no. He died for those who were, presently, and posthumously sinners. So how does a dead person turn to Jesus and be saved (ie. Adam...). It seems that they have no chance, nor no chance to contact others of their kin who are living(See Luke 16). So why is Christ called the redeemer? Because he died for the Sin of the world. Meaning that he died so that Original Sin and sins which we do may be repented of and forgiven BEFORE death of the body. -maouse ps. I would like to add that Adam was "saved" by living for God... and I'm pretty sure he is in heaven... he'll be an interesting fellow to chat with if I ever get there...