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Pastimes : Jesus -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: maouse who wrote (1305)	10/30/1999 1:03:00 AM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4775

I say there is no FREE WILL but I do not say men have no will ! Over and over when men enter these discussions they start off saying that ' ANYONE can get saved by the POWER of their FREE WILL' I do not say that men do not will freely to do whatsoever God has ordained for them to do. That however is different than saying men have a WILL that is FREE to do whatever they want good or bad ! Some men go to heaven some to hell but it is not decided by anything Free or Loose in the will of man. JOHN 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. You are denying the very first thing taught by John about HOW SONS of GOD ARE BORN !

To: maouse who wrote (1305)	10/30/1999 1:25:00 AM
From: Berry Picker	Respond to of 4775

RE>>I never said that the offer was for everyone.<< Good you got that part right . You would not believe how many people argue that God HAS offered salvation to everyone that ever lived. RE>>God gives faith to as an added gift << The Bible does not support this at ALL. Faith is the GIFT that SAVES It is the GIFT of LIFE ITSELF look : Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Men are saved through Faith not of works look at the next verse: Eph2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. RE>>Thomas was similar.<< This is a bit of a joke the old "doubting Thomas rap" because none of the apostles believe that Jesus rose until they saw it ! Check the Bible. It's funny really. Poor Thomas got singled out as the doubter. Maouse: You fell right into the WORDS of PAUL look at what Paul said: Romans 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? That is exactly what you said in my humble opinion :-} look RE>>Then we are not responsible. So why worry? Why beleive anything?<< Interesting that Paul knew what maouse would say so long ago isn't it... Read Romans Chapter 9 This is where Paul teaches what I have been trying to tell you. He got the same reaction obviously ! RE>> If they are not Chosen to be saved then they may as well be satan worshipers.<< They are satan worshipers they just don't all know it or go to church ! I have never taught that all men are sheep I don't know where you get that from... Jesus taught that there are Sheep and Goats: Matthew 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. John 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: Lastly Jesus did not die for the goats: John 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. READ ROMANS 9 and see your objection voiced by Paul Himself in verse 19