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To: RTev who wrote (1055)	10/29/1999 11:48:00 PM
From: Druss	Respond to of 3246

RTev--I think most of the blame for the Treaty of Versailles must go on Wilson and the group of idealists that he gathered around him and sent to the conference. Both British and French members of their respective delegations (and leading politicians) spoke at the time of the utter dominance of the US there. The war had so weakened them and strengthened the US that they were dictated to almost as much as the Germans. They considered some of Wilson's 14 points to be absurd and bad ideas and they were forced to swallow them all. What the British and French did get through such as the punitive reparations were only done with essentially US approval and in retrospect were most damaging because of US policies that led to a depression worldwide. Lloyd George did well IMHO considering what he had to work with and he did very well in ramping England up to a war time footing. Like the French who may have had the worst generals he was stuck with a bad one Haig. Lloyd George literally began holding troops back from France to prevent Haig (who he could not get rid of) from launching more of his offensives/slaughters. Still as Neocon has pointed out it is hard to find admirable people from this era. So many had good intentions and they ended either in wholesale slaughter on the WWI battlefields or leading to the still more bloody conflict of WWII. All the Best Druss

To: RTev who wrote (1055)	11/1/1999 1:25:00 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 3246

Thank you for a vigorous objection to Lloyd George. On balance, I think you are correct. The only reason I did not firmly reject him is that I have given Wilson some thought, but not so much to George....I am not so sure, however, that giving up on Ireland is the same as enshrining the principle of ethnic self- determination, although ultimately Wilson did, in fact, get cooperation. It is an especially good point that George was no better at restraining the harsh peace terms, and, in fact, collaborated on some of them. I would, however, be interested if there are any counter- arguments offered.....