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Pastimes : Jesus -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Berry Picker who wrote (1580)	11/2/1999 1:37:00 AM
From: average joe	Read Replies (5) \| Respond to of 4775

It's a good thing that you don't need to be a mathematician or mental contortionist or A BIG PRETENDER like you Brian to find salvation. The problem with people like YOU is that you turn people away from GOD more than to him with your secret codes and your passwords. I know you've got Nancy and Cathleen turned on with your pontificating and I leave you to them. Saint Average Joe of the Cross

To: Berry Picker who wrote (1580)	11/2/1999 11:56:00 AM
From: BlueCheap	Respond to of 4775

John 3:16 - 18; What DOES the Word "Whosoever" Mean? WHY did Jesus tell Nickodemus he MUST be Born Again? Bryian i was having a HARD TIME understanding your thinking UNTIL I read this. You stated that By reading the very next verse. *** THIS IS KEY - THIS IS KEY - THIS IS KEY *** John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. YES That IS THE KEY.................. However, You really should show folks WHAT is ment here, which IS understood by reading what Jesus said in John 6:44 "NO MAN can come to me except the Father, who sent me , draw him; and I will raise him up at the last day. The content of John 1;13 as well as here, is this. Man cannot just all of a sudden "DECIDE" he'll get saved, nor will he be saved simply because our "blood parents" are Christians, thus" not of blood". We KNOW salvation IS by the BLOOD and so it is not "Born of Man blood" but HIS BLOOD. "Nor of the will of the Flesh" , in other words, "can't just decide on day, Oh I believe I'll get saved today", like one might decide to eat dinner. However you are implying that man has NO CHOICE??????????????? THAT makes NO SENSE at all to me. If folks are born into this world in either a LOST or SAVED state, then WHY pray tell did Jesus command that we "Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the His Name????? Teach them WHAT, FOR WHAT if they are lost or saved no matter what. Why tell Nickodemus he MUST BE BORN AGAIN ? which IS a MUST for EVER MAN. It is a GRANTED RIGHT or PRIVELEGE not some enablement of the flesh ! I AGREE Indeed we learn elsewhere that it is not us working for salvation but rather God that works Salvation within us ! Lest any man should boast ! The Gift of GOD in Salvation is complete apart from our works or acceptance. YOU GOT THAT RIGHT ! John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me DRAW HIM : and I will raise him up at the last day. I already pointed to that as being a KEY This kind of Draw is as in DRAW WATER FROM a WELL ! It is not to attract like a magnet ! and not All MEN. I agree with that as well. It is an INDIVIDUAL DRAWING. Now it escapes me where the "Rich Young Ruler came to Jesus" wanting to know what he could do for salvation but you will know where that is. Anyway, I KNOW what his motive was and what his problem was BUT lets lay that aside and assume for a moment that he was Drawn by the Holy Spirit and yet because of his great wealth he REJECTED Christ just as he did. Same results. Now, had he yielded his soul and life to Christ, he would, according to scripture, been BORN AGAIN. Are you telling me he HAD NO CHOICE in the matter? If not Brian, WHY are YOU wanting the lost to know Christ? If they are goinjg to be saved no matter what, why bother. If they are LOST no matter what they do, why worry about them, WHY even name Christ to the Lost, if indeed they are to BE LOST? I don't have the time nor the desire to debate this issue. I'll just let folks use some good old common sense and draw their own conclusion, besides according to your interrptation it won't make any difference if your right but on this your not :) Malcolm