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To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (15214)11/8/1999 11:50:00 AM
From: MNI  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 17770
 
LOL Gustave, how nice to know that at least the anarchists are pro-American nowadays, as everyone else is so anti-US. The mainstream plebs, the bourgeois, David alias Jos‚ Bov‚, simply everyone.
I challenge you on making plausible that there is a way to describe >>the exact mainstream feeling of the European plebs<<. Too many too different European streams around here, I fear.

To demonstrate: Your heroic David is unknown to me (sorry for that), as is Millenium Round in Seattle, WA (sorry again, I know I may be ignorant, but you seem to suggest that these are central media events - never featured in my Telly). I know however, that the US won't participate in the Expo 2000 Hannover ('No sponsors, sorry') after previously pressurising the organizing committee to make Coca-Cola and MacDonalds the sole licensed food providers against the projected competitional scheme with exactly this threat - a week after the contract was struck, the US withdrew.
Now what do you think do people say or think about these happenings around here? They don't see any connection. They refuse to acknowledge that they actually have been taken on a ride, and cheaply. So you may be right about 'arrogant' French (I don't cite this as my opinion now, but as an oft returning cliche) speakers' attitudes towards America - but it doesn't say anything about Germany. Although I don't like that thought, you suggest that Germany is of central importance for the European political development, so these attitudes should be counted higher than you do.

You struck the right chord of course with German interest in good US relations being backed by econo-political interest - and luckily, German cars are currently becoming more popular in the US :-).
But also culturally, Germany is far from being able to become Anti-American. A politician that solicited anti-Americanism would have no chance here. His democratic credibility would be zero. Period. And that also extends into the regime of economic decision makers be that Central Bankers or trust CEOs.

The US culture (including democratic rights, as you know) has been a very effective source of inspiration for Europe ever since the Bill of Rights, and that is more than 200 years. US culture has not been vilified during all that time, and if so, seldomly with justification.

Contemporary junk consumer culture is of course linked to America, but it is also recognized as a global trend, and it is the flexibility of the US economy and the professionality of US advertisement that realizes popular trends first in the US, before other countries 'wake up'. So, confront anybody in Germany with a piece of cutting-edge consumer technology, like the newest mobile phone, and ask 'Where has this been first developed ? (or marketed)' You'll hear uniformly 'America', even if it was Finland, Sweden or the Netherlands. The spoils of consumer culture, not the spoiled culture of consumption is what is linked to the US.

I think you will share an opinion with me that it is difficult to name post-war European cultural trends that were exclusively European.

Junk culture - that is what the Romans were known for. What do you think why the Romans never overcame their inferiority complex towards the Greeks? And what does Tacitus project into his fairy-tale heroic Germans (that are mostly projections of what Tacitus believed Cato wanted the Romans to be like) ? Contempt for Roman mediocrity, material spoils, corruption. It was the more effective Roman mass production that brought fine culture to barbarian Germany, not the more refined Greek art, (nor was it Hannibal). Apart from that, the US are not possessing a global empire - very different from the Romans, or lately, the Britons.

I didn't get why you enumerated 'criteria' as a structural backbone of your post. Any connection with my post?

Anyway, I wish you a nice night out there in Bruxelles' taxis, and listen to my advice, open up your eyes, look outside, not into your memory alone.

Regards MNI

As a matter of fairness I should document here that I do not mind so much if faeces are mentioned, as long as the poster attributes things or statements with such words, but restrains from using them for persons. In German public usage, some forms of mentioning such matters are allowable, even in arts, entertainment, or the parliament.
Disclaimer: I am not actively encouraging such usage.



To: GUSTAVE JAEGER who wrote (15214)11/8/1999 7:50:00 PM
From: goldsnow  Respond to of 17770
 
<<<So far, this bourgeois anti-Americanism was restricted to economical matters but I suspect that in, say, 10 years from now, a broader, cultural divide will support it. Europe will pose a larger challenge to the US, not merely an economic one, but a cultural and political one as well....>>>

It seems to me that we (I) have been through that subject before....But what the heck you already have placed your 2c (American money I presume) There is no broader or narrower (or whatever adjunctives you want to use) cultural divide....Whatever power American Culture, (Hollywood including) has it is surely Economic....Pure and simple, nonwithstanding the unsuspected rednecks (Belgian/French including) that still think that what portrayed in "Dallas" show represent real America, naturally they are at awe, being mesmorised and frightened at the same time....The Great American Constitution that MNI cites, is mere declarations without the muscle of Economic Prosperity, any time Gvn (any Gvn) is given full powers it is going to misuse the power to the fullest...That is of course the Greatest Achievement of the Constitution-an attempt to prevent or divert the misuse....It is however also a horrendous trap, as it is ensured by modern legal system that depends on nothing but money...As (if/when) more of the Money dried-up, the less relevant mere declaration will become...At the end inability to sustain Prosperity can lead to the calamity far outpacing Rome collapse...So the best course for Europe is to sign non-compete clause and rely more heavily on Mr. Bove and his friends <gg>