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To: jbe who wrote (1412)	11/11/1999 3:01:00 PM
From: Neocon	Respond to of 3246

If I thought the influence were mainly bad, I would exclude them. In fact, I think that American pop culture is a good thing, forming the basis for a global culture, and encoding the spirit of modern civilization, so that those who are under its tutelage are better prepared to function in a world characterized by modern mores and sensibilities. Thus, its icons have an arguable place on the list, although I have not decided on the ones I would definitely include. Frank Sinatra is the epitome of the rise of the immigrant through talent to a position of prominence in society, and also had a profound impact on the "values" that came to dominate pop singing: naturalness, intimacy, expression, and the like.....

To: jbe who wrote (1412)	11/11/1999 5:42:00 PM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 3246

By the way, I wanted to note the inherently speculative nature of all of this, and the need to have an underlying theory of the case (or rather, cases). For example, which was more important in Augustan Rome, the works of Cicero, or the Septuagint? In the longer run, the latter, although the former would have been favored as necessary components of a good education at the time. Who was more influential, Metternich or Abraham Lincoln? At the time, Metternich. In the longer run, Lincoln. Who had a more constructive impact, Martin Luther or Ignatius Loyola? If you believe that Protestantism was an advance in human freedom, and well worth the wars of religion that Europe endured, Luther. If you believe that the Catholic synthesis of classical and Christian thought was a high point of intellectual civilization, and that its preservation was necessary, then Ignatius Loyola was the more constructive figure....