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Pastimes : Jesus -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: alan w who wrote (1893)	11/11/1999 4:19:00 PM
From: gregor	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4775

alan: I am new to this thread and in an earlier post I referred to an Alan. Just for the record I was not referring to you. Also , an observation on fear and my relationship with the Lord, which is going on 32 years now. The closer I try to get to the flame , the more likely, I really have to get my ducks in a row. It's not so much I fear the Lord, but I do fear the flame. Likewise, fear of the flames of eternal punishment are not very evident in our society. As a Christian there is a reverential fear (awe) of God, for we have no need to fear flames in hell. But we should reverentially fear God for a lot of other reasons. Just trying to sort out the difference. Fear as a Christian and fear as an unsaved person ( should have ) are two different fears that have little to do with each other. In Christ.gregor

To: alan w who wrote (1893)	11/11/1999 7:49:00 PM
From: Berry Picker	Respond to of 4775

Dear and struggling Alan... Trust me you will struggle.. I struggled but afterward there is a peaceable fruit in Knowing God as He really is... But we being carnal of ourselves have a very tough time getting there.. RE>>you and I are down there in a bearhug with Hitler.<< No you're wrong I WAS { PAST TENSE } in that Bear Hug and except for the PURE GRACE of GOD apart from anything I did in my flesh THERE GO I !! You're right Alan all men are wicked but not all men are THE wicked ! Anyone who serves Christ knows they are sinful read Romans 7 that was written by Paul AFTER he was saved ! THE wicked are all those whom God does not grant salvation. RE>>I guess God could use a man's fear to motivate him.<< That is RIGHT... Fear is a MEANS not the CAUSE ! Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: Some are saved by the sheer overpowering love of God... That was me. NEXT VERSE : Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Others through fear.. BUT LOOK at the NEXT VERSE: Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, It is Jesus through the HOLY GHOST who will present you faultless to the Father. Means Alan, Even as this verse: Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God Do you see what the verse DOES NOT SAY ?? It does not say 'Faith comes by hearing the word of GOD ' Because Hearing the word of God is only the means.. Lots of people have heard the word of God who do not get faith... only those who hear with the hearing ear. It does say this So then faith comes by a hearing ear ( granted by God ), and hearing the word of God. Otherwise there are too many "hearings" in the verse. Just as Jesus said: Proverbs 20:12 The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them. Revelation 2:29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. He that hath an ear means Spiritual ears.. given of God.. everyone has ears. Matthew 5. Your argument was very good. It is logically correct but it failed to make distinctions that are required. I will with Christ tell you to love your enemies.. but if you love them as you love your wife Your wife will kick you out of the house :-} Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. When God sends rain on the just and unjust God FEEDS the Wicked... That is good so then God feeds even His enemies.. It does not just rain on the fields of Christian farmers. God is good and kind to mankind in general. GOD ACTS in love to His enemies. Matthew 5:43 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. Jesus hear teaches that we must LOVE our ENEMIES. So when a man rapes and kills some little girl and laughs in the face of the hurting parents Do you honestly think that Jesus was telling you to have some warm and tender hearted affection for that fellow ??? If you did how could he then be called your enemy.. I'm sure he has a mother or someone somewhere who will love him no matter how wicked he has turned out to be But that is not the Love that God has for the wicked. As it is WRITTEN: Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. This verse plainly teaches that GOD hates these fellows but with a PERFECT HATRED... God hates them in essence but acts in love towards them. Does God call us to love him... YES but not that we like or admire or respect him as a being. We Respect him as an eternal soul created by God and his property although he is 'none of his'. Do we torture the man and pay him back for hurting the little girl? NO we ACT as civilized beings and we show him love in that he receives a fair trial and a merciful death penalty. We are not allowed to vent human hatred on the man.. In deed we need to defend him from the lynch mobs and those who would hate him with a Wicked Hatred. I am saying that there is a RIGHTEOUS HATRED and a WICKED HATRED. Alan I can talk and talk and you may never hear what I am saying... Did you read my paper on Romans 9.. What does this verse teach: Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. God hated Esau.. did God deal with him according to hatred in this world ?? No God made a great nation of Esau He prospered Esau. There is no record of God ever "acting" in hatred to Esau. However Esau was not loved according to election to Salvation. What happened in the end of Esau's life... did he repent.. OH yes he repented.. did God forgive... lets have a look: Hebrews 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears. Esau repented to get forgiveness but that option was never open to him. 1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous Judas repented Alan.. He threw the money back and confessed the Christ was the innocent blood ! He died in His sin as a demon. John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? The general Love that God shows to all men is that they are not in hell the very minute they sin. The specific and intimate LOVE that God has to the Elect is that God has chosen them unto Salvation FROM THE BEGINNING ! 2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Al God did not chose you because you are less of a sinner than your neighbour. He SET his LOVE UPON YOU before you were ever born by His Soveriegn Electing Choice. When Jesus says : Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. I never knew you is the most sorry words any man could ever Hear of the Living God Jesus the Christ. I never KNEW is like Adam KNEW Eve It is that intimate LOVE that is shared between the Husband and His Bride. Hope that helps. I do encourage you to continue in the WORD.. THE WORD THE WORD.. it is your lifeline. Jesus mad a promise to you Alan: John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Study Gods word.. Show no mercy... Hound the LORD for truth as did the widow.. POUND on HEAVENS door.. be a good and faithful servant: Luke 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. This one is for you Al. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.