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To: Louis Gray who wrote (26988)	11/14/1999 8:17:00 PM
From: Edward Boghosian	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 213182

Are you saying that Macs cannot access the internet using Internet Explorer? I have a Performa 6290 and I can use both I.E. and Netscape even with Java. I'm not an expert and perhaps you are talking about something else.

To: Louis Gray who wrote (26988)	11/14/1999 8:20:00 PM
From: Adam Nash	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 213182

Hang on a second. There is no way anyone can argue that there has been a better Java VM on the Macintosh than MRJ 2.1. MRJ 2.2 looks like a strong update, which adds support for secure Java applets. Now, what bugs most web developers (saying most is probably a weak argument to start, since relatively few web developers use Java in any significant way) is the lack of Javascript -> Java communication in IE. IE does not have this on Windows either, but they have other proprietary mechanisms in place. This is not Apple's "fault" since using JManager 2.0 Microsoft could easily implement the feature. We as users need to complain to MICROSOFT, to let them know that these features are a priority. Too often, Mac users complain to Apple, when in reality, third parties need to hear directly from users before they "believe" a feature is important. Apple spends a lot of time telling developers what they "should" do. This gets tiring for third parties. I personally still use Netscape 4.7, since I find good Javascript more important than good Java. IE 5.x promises to be excellent on the Mac, but I haven't seen yet whether they are going to get Javascript -> Java communication in there. I personally sent a message to the product manager on the subject 5 months ago, but it will take a lot more than my letter to get a feature prioritized.

To: Louis Gray who wrote (26988)	11/15/1999 7:08:00 AM
From: Zen Dollar Round	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 213182

Our current solution is to have an error page, asking the user to instead download Netscape's Communicator. This does not make us comfortable by any means. I have seen other sites that take the other tact, asking me to use Windows when I view them from my PowerMac G3/350 at work. This could be the next step should Apple's MRJ continue to flounder. Hold on there, buster! IE 4.5 still gives users the choice to use the Microsoft Virtual Machine for its Java, it's right in Preferences under the Java tab. Wouldn't it be easier to tell your users to simply switch to it instead? No need to force them to use Netscape to get the job done. I'm with Adam though, I have far more use for good, compatible Javascript than Java, and Netscape suits me just fine.