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Pastimes : Jesus -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Chris land who wrote (2052)	11/18/1999 1:02:00 AM
From: monu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4775

Chris, I think people are missing the point. God will not reveal himself to anyone who isn't willing to humble themselves before him. He alone knows the heart. The prayer in John 17 is not the only prayer. For instance, we are taught to pray for "believers" safekeeping as well as for those who "despitefully use us". In that prayer, he was praying for his own. There are times the Spirit leads us to pray for someone who isn't saved: Other times for someone who is. To say that God only has a select few that He desires to save is wrong. He desires all to be saved but in his infinite knowledge, he knows those that are his or will be his. Think of his earthly ministry. He was first sent to his own. Those were the Jews. Salvation was to the Jew first and yet when the Greek woman besought him to cast the demon out of her daughter, he obliged, even though it wasn't yet her time; meaning the time for the non Jew. God answers the pleading heart. The humble heart he will not resist. One last thing: Look at Mark 3:33-35. What is the will of God? "That you believe on him whom he has sent" See Jn 6:28-29. God's will is that all might believe. Unfortunately, most will not. Still this isn't God's desire. This is where Brian misses the heart of God. God doesn't want anyone to perish. That doesn't prevent him from knowing who those people are. But by knowing, this doesn't in any way mean He wills their damnation.

To: Chris land who wrote (2052)	11/18/1999 3:51:00 AM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 4775

Good Grief man where have you been I've been in here doing this battle alone... I feel like private Ryan !

To: Chris land who wrote (2052)	11/18/1999 3:49:00 PM
From: maouse	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 4775

Chris & Brian; Congrats on meeting a fellow believer Brian... maybe you two can go talk yourselves into circles for a while... ;) Anyway, "In John 17:8 Jesus says: I pray for them. I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. " So Jesus prayed to God for intercession for the ones He knows He has the power to save if He wishes... interesting... why did He choooooose to do this I wonder? (see my question to Brian - Does God have Free Will?) Jesus was risen in the Holy Land. He didn't show himself to many. But those He did, He did for a reason - so that their faith might be strengthened in order that (by which I mean so they would choose) they would continue to preach the good news of salvation through believing in Jesus Christ as Savior. The call isn't to the Ceasar, Herod, Hitlers and the like. For the call is a call of love and servitude. And although Hamlet might have know what this meant, I'm pretty sure the three previous did not. I have a question; does God just get the "easy ones"? Meaning, has God just picked the easy ones and ignored the would be Kings? "He spoke in parables so that only those who had a hearing heart would understand. Who was granted a hearing heart? Only his own of course. " -this is a circular, pompous(sp?), self-serving and ignorant arguement. How does one ever harden their heart or open their mind? You would lead me to believe that it cannot be done by God working through other people. Then, truly, why send Jesus? Except it to show us the way WE MUST BEHAVE. You would have me believe that God has chosen us and that is the end. But this doesn't explain how man falls from His grace (ie, there would only be one Covenant if this were true). You would lead me to believe that Satan can take His chosen from Him, or worse, if Satan gets them they were never His. Can't you see how ignorant this is? -maouse ps. do you believe all man was a creation of God - did he make some "men" different - are you a racist? Or do you go by the more occult logic of Nephalim? Whichever you believe you have to concur that everyone has a little of what God put in them... ie. HIS OWN IMAGE... and therefore can choose to let God work through them... (that is... if you answered the original question -Does God Have Free Will- in the affirmative) ------ thus concludes my circular arguement portion of our show... ;) ------ PEACE ALL