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Strategies & Market Trends : Cents and Sensibility - Kimberly and Friends' Consortium -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Autumn Henry who wrote (33969)	11/26/1999 3:45:00 PM
From: BarbaraT	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108040

Autumn .. I can't answer for anyone else. I bought into ADSP at the close on Wednesday purely on spec. I have not hyped it and sold it at the gap up (early, obviously, at 23 - but no complaints as it was a profit of 12 points). I have noticed that some of these stocks that run up on momentum carry through the next day of trading. I was fortunate in that CNBC, and Joe Kernan specifically, mentioned ADSP very positively after the bell (something to the effect that he was surprised but it does seem to have merit because it can be used on both Windows and Linux and sells for $9,000 vs. competitor's models at over $20,000 which only work on Windows) .. so it went up strongly in afterhours. Nevertheless, I do not believe that I hype stocks unless I strongly believe in fundamentals, and then they would be "investment" stocks such as LU and RFMD. I would like to believe that the people that put out these picks and that have "guru" status, either major or minor, would have enough faith in these stocks to hold them for more than a few hours .. but unfortunately, that is not always the case. Some of the stocks put out, like AGIL (which has since become a winner), WFII, etc. have become long term holds. But then, they went down immediately after the pick went out and so became "hold" as a matter of price. But you do have to realize that most of these traders are out for themselves, as am I. I would never enjoy making money at someone else's expense -- but I am also trying to catch the ride, if so lucky, of any current momo stock. In that circumstance, I am out for numero uno (as is everyone on this thread) and at the same time, I hope everyone is fortunate and that we all make money. No one wants to be last in and last out, but it has happened to all of us. I certainly am no stranger to that event. I am sorry if you missed out on the ADSP run, or worse, if you got in too late. I have learned to sell too early rather than regret not getting out in time ... so the fact that I sold at 23 and missed out on another 30+ points is not the best move I could have made, I have no complaints because I have lost too much money in the past playing for that extra point and greed. I leave that to the better traders who are more nimble and quick than I. I am just happy to have found this thread and grateful for those picks that I do make money on ( and of course, I am a sourpuss on those that I am johnny come lately). My only resentment is when someone pounds the table on a stock so that you think this well respected person is still hot on the stock, only to read 10 minutes later (after you bought) that he/she has sold it and you are left holding the bag since everyone bails at the same time. But it happens, and it's part of playing the game. The other alternative -- find your own picks or a full service broker you trust. Hope this helps you with your personal survey ... but as I said, this is my opinion only and how I play the game. Of course, I have lost a lot of money in the past, but recently have at least made up some. I have to admit that most of my purchases are my own picks - but I am thrilled when my instincts match those of the members of this thread and with their help, the stock does run. Although I am sure I could hold my own in the market as I have done in the past prior to discovering this thread, I certainly would miss it and Kimberly's guidance if it were gone.

To: Autumn Henry who wrote (33969)	11/26/1999 4:05:00 PM
From: Walk Softly	Respond to of 108040

AH... this is the dirtiest business around.... though there are moral people that do it... IMO, traders in general are folks that love to predict the future, and be right... the money is secondary... ADSP is heavily manipulated.... did you see Kim's and my discussion.... I was trying to be informative and have no position in ADSP (having known of these fellows for years I actually flushed them from my dbase along with WRLS last summer for pormises broken)... like I said... it is the novice daytraders left holding the bag... occasionally a MM will go under.... but rarely...... the smaller ones are just order takers matching buys w/ sells.... but the bigger ones can significantly control prices through leadership/followership tag-team price fixing.... if you're looking for a morality about it or any business venture... forget it... it's every man/skirt for himself... ES

To: Autumn Henry who wrote (33969)	11/26/1999 4:32:00 PM
From: If only I'd held	Respond to of 108040

Autumn, let me clear something up for you. Yes, this market is dog eat dog. Yes, yes, yes... There is very little morality in the market. There are many folks doing the best they can to maintain some degree of integrity, and you come to know who they are over time. Unfortunately, for every 1 of those people, there are at least 3 that have one thing and only one thing in mind. And that is making money. Don't ever put down your guard and think that this market is about you, or protecting you. This market is about money and that is it. The more money folks have, the more they want. It is controlled by those with the biggest money, and their goal is to get yours from you. Hence, dog eat dog. I did not participate in ADSP until today. I shorted at 54-1/2 and covered at 35. As far as the rubbing it in part.....that is just plain childishness. It comes with the package though unfortunately. Just remember, most of the wars of the world were about money. People kill people over money every day, all day. Hold onto yours and do the best you can to keep your integity right along with it. Hopefully, some day, you will be extremely rich, and have an inner peace in knowing that you didn't have to do the wrong things to get it. But for every winner, there is a loser in this market. That's it. 50/50 Trade accordingly and ignore the rest of the crap. Oh, and one more thing...just when you think you got the rules down, they change. Change with them.

To: Autumn Henry who wrote (33969)	11/26/1999 5:08:00 PM
From: RockyBalboa	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108040

because for some reason I am bothered by this whole thing. Huh??? Have you lost money? Have you been sitting on the sidelines, on your hands? I also didn't get too many responses about trading this stock on my original question regarding is it all about getting in/hyping the stock/and running out before the dumbest traders enter?--and then leaving them to hold the bag? Is that all this stock is about? Is that why you played it? Then what is the satisfaction of that--just the money? It is, I believe. Whether it is a big stock, or a small stock. Volatility or % movements may differ but in general it works similar. Look at QCOM, recently it hit $406, but now it is a bit lower. Many persons bought the stock higher, perhaps because it looked "good" and can run more. It is, as you say just because of the damn dollars...Name me a different reason why half a million people sit down day by day and go $$$ hunting on their home PC, even when the sun is shining? Secondly. Trading a stock is like going with the crowd. Would you buy a dead dog noone is interested about, if you are a short term investor. Perhaps, if you make believe yourself that just this stock has to move very soon... Odd. So, many traders jump stocks which have moved move nicely, and especially when there is limited or negative supply for some time, then price moves are quickly amplified. Many of those stocks never look back, but some may indeed be grossly overvalued even before they rise. There is always the possibility to find a real undervalued gem in which absolutely noone is interested, but the company does great things... but that is hard to achieve, and right now the money is to make elsewhere. For the time being you trade "commodities", just - stock symbols. And I think making great money is good. But I got to thinking a bit about morality today. It seemed like the word that kept coming up with ADSP. And I thought I have never examined what "morality" is in trading. You bet. As you say yourself making money is good, making great money is even better. I am just today, the day after thanksgiving, thinking about morality and the market and trading and wondering if there is any of any sort or it is just "no holds barred fighting" without a referee which is what trading is all about? I'm glad that there is no referee who blows a whistle when one stock rises by more then 10% or 20% or, perhaps halts the trading when the float has been turned once, lol. It is wild west and not for the faint of heart.

To: Autumn Henry who wrote (33969)	11/26/1999 6:43:00 PM
From: stan s.	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108040

>>> Then what is the satisfaction of that--just the money? <<< ...Autumn, I think it depends on how you live your life and what you do with "just the money." For some on these threads, this is a living, for some a way to supplement an income and help fulfill unrealized dreams. For others it's the thrill of competition, a giant electronic board game where wits, courage and quickness are matched up on a daily basis. Should a car salesman angst over the fact that every time he makes a sale...another salesman loses out? Should an accomplished artist not endeavor to do his best and thrill over public acclimation of his good work for fear a starving artist is not receiving due recognition? The hope is (as in any occupation) that those who succeed, willingly and graciously share with others, be it family members, friends or unknown unfortunates. My guess is that generosity is rampant amongst those that prevail in these pursuits of excellence. Partly because of the ephemeral nature of these "good times" and circumstance that allow these gains to be made. People who do well at this realize how fortunate they are to be able to do this. In my three years on SI I've had occasion to share stories with many investors here via pm's and with very few exceptions they have shown themselves to be some of the most generous people I know.... invariably, they seem to be going out of their way to help others. As far as the gloating and derision that seems to be aimed at the shorts. Think about the psychology involved, think about the phrasing the better known shorts on SI have used about their "targets".Of course a little "payback" mentality enters into it...brought on by a combination of the arrogant rhetoric of the professional shorts and by their announced intentions and their goals. Shorting is rarely done with altruistic intent. Don't be fooled but the guileless protestations of professional shorts...they are empty words. It's a competitive society and that spills over into these environs, people win and lose. Hopefully we learn with every win and loss. Frankly I would love to have gotten into ADSP at 10 and sold at 50...and no I don't care whether they have the fundamentals to sustain that. There are investments and there are trades and I don't let the psychology of one influence the other. If you want to survive at this you have to be able to anticipate and then act on...the fear and greed of others, else you won't survive. Take care and thanks for a thought provoking post...just don't do it again. lol...just kidding. Stan

To: Autumn Henry who wrote (33969)	11/26/1999 9:09:00 PM
From: Bryan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108040

Autumn, I think you've just figured out the difference between investing and trading. As far as morality goes, I don't think there is much of that involved in either of the two. I've been a foreign exchange trader for 11 years and I can tell you without any hesitation that any form of trading is dog eat dog. Investing is a lesser form of dog eat dog; perhaps it is dog nibble dog or dog snap at other dog. At any rate, investing over the long term is a less painful route to take. Things like "dollar cost averaging" and "dividend re-investment" come into mind when you choose the long-term approach. When you decide to jump off the deep end and play the day-trading game, it's a whole different ball game, and I believe that is where the conflict arises for you. These are two very different animals, and there must be a distinction between the two, or you will most definitely go zonkers. I like the short-term nature of this thread. Through a little bit of DD, you can decide for yourself which are the ones to jump on for a short ride and which are the ones to hold on to and average down on for a longer term commitment. Either way, there are plenty of opportunities presented here without prejudice, to help facilitate the creation of an overall plan. Ultimately however, it is you and you only who will make the final decision to pull the trigger and turn the plan into reality. It's nothing personal AH, it's just the culmination of different ideas and plans that creates the market and the underlying volatility that moves the market. Without this continuous process, the markets would not exist and we wouldn't be having all this fun. You seem like a smart person....you will do well. Regards, B

To: Autumn Henry who wrote (33969)	11/26/1999 9:52:00 PM
From: Shoot1st	Respond to of 108040

I had a similar feeling about ALAN. But then, I'm a big boy and nobody forced me into the trade. By the way, ALAN sucks big time. Poor guy only lived for one day. And what's a few thousand dollars among friends. Shootie.......broadcasting live from Sarcasm City.