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To: The Phoenix who wrote (30252)	12/14/1999 1:24:00 PM
From: Mighty Mizzou	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 77400

Dont you Cisco guys work? You spend more time on this thread spewing bogus hype and cutting everybody down during working hours. CISCO employees dont work, they just use Cisco funny money to buy a box here and there and slap a cisco sticker on it and call it the next big thing. Do something OG instead of airing your head out. Your company is looking weak. They need your profound expertise.

To: The Phoenix who wrote (30252)	12/14/1999 1:33:00 PM
From: sam	Respond to of 77400

Has this been posted yet? networkworld.com Cisco VPN strategy has a broadband beat By Jim Duffy Network World Fusion, 12/14/99 Cisco yesterday announced enhancements to its VPN offerings that offer high bandwidth access over cable and other broadband media. Cisco now offers IP Security and Cisco Secure Integrated Software - formerly known as the Cisco IOS Firewall feature set - with firewall, intrusion detection and digital certificate support on a suite of router platforms. These platforms include the Cisco 1400 series digital subscriber line router, the Cisco uBR924 cable access router and the Cisco 800 series ISDN router. Cisco's 7100 and 7200 routers, which can function as central site virtual private network (VPN) termination systems, also now support Point-to-Point Tunneling Protocol (PPTP) clients and Microsoft point-to-point encryption (MPPE). This enables remote access VPN deployment using client software resident in Microsoft Windows 95, 98 and NT operating systems, Cisco says. Cisco also rolled out two new models within its Cisco 7100 series of VPN routers - the Cisco 7140-8T and 7140-2FE. The Cisco 7140-8T features an integrated eight T-1/E-1 WAN interface; the 7140-2FE is a dual Fast Ethernet head-end device specifically designed for VPN tunnel termination behind the WAN edge, enabling enterprises to deploy VPNs without replacing or adapting their existing WAN edge device. Lastly, Cisco ported its Windows NT-based VPN security software - Secure Scanner, formerly known as NetSonar - to Solaris. All products are available today. The Cisco 1400, Ubr924 and 800 routers start at $1495, $899 and $799, respectively. The Cisco 7100 Series of routers with PPTP and MPPE support start at $11,900. A single license for the Solaris operating environment version of the Cisco Secure Scanner 2.0 is $495.

To: The Phoenix who wrote (30252)	12/14/1999 2:25:00 PM
From: telecomguy	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 77400

Hehehe Gary, I have this feeling that you have a technical background with very little real understanding of the business aspect of network infrastructure business! To say that people won't pay for bandwidth indicateds the most naive and superficial understanding of what happens in the Carrier business. I think where you get this quaint notion that bandwidth is free is because of the following phonemenon; 1) free ISP access model (i.e. Freeserve in UK started this) where the ISP provides free internet access in return for your "eyeballs" 2) free Internet Telephony (which really isn't free and which really is not accessible for 99.99% of the world population. What the ISP does in their business model INCLUDING offering free internet access does NOT translate to free bandwidth because guess what? Those ISP's pay dearly to the PTT's and Telcos for bandwidth. If you can find me a Carrier who won't charge an ISP or CLEC or ILEC or a switch based reseller for bandwidth, please let me know.............I am in the international telecom and internet business and I DON'T KNOW ANY CARRIER WHO WOULD PROVIDE ME WITH A FREE PIPE!!! "People will not pay for bandwidth" Hmmmmmmm, that has to be the statement of the year. To be frank, I am surprised to hear such a nonsense from you Gary as you appear relatively knowlegeable --- at least amongst the posters in this thread. People WILL pay for bandwidth and pay dearly for it --- yes the price is going down at the wholesale level and it will continue to go down as more parallel networks and fibres are laid down but TRUST ME --- bandwidth is not free today and it won't be free tomorrow. By the way, I made a nice 600% return on Psinet and got out last year. Why? Despite Schrader's rhetoric, their business model is made of house of cards. If you look at their gross profit margin, you will see that they are living off a 25% margin (if you add back the amorization and depreciation of "owned" circuit -- which is really not owned actually but is an indefeasible right to the transoceanic circuits for 25 years). They cleverly converted the top line gross margin costs of leased circuits by "buying" access (and it wasn't free Gary!) from the likes of C&W, BT, AT&T, etc. --- yes the very same 'old' PTT dinosaurs that guys like you and Schrader claim are obsolete! The only problem with their clever tactics is that they are still losing incredible amount of money (which makes perfect sense since their Internet Telephony, VPN, and Internet Fax service all generte squat in terms of real revenue. But it's all hidden behind their junk bond capitalization so the Wall St. boys keep feeding billions of dollars worth of capital -- all because Schrader goes around saying we are the new-fangled Carrier here to dethrone the PTT dinosaurs.........which is the only reason why they continue to stay afloat even though operationally they are bleeding like a hemophiliac. With absolute certainty, Psinet and companies like that will run out of capital when 1) wall st. boys finally realize the promised mega returns just aren't going to happen or 2) there is a correction in the stock market and risk capital dries up And of course, when that happens, guess who is going to be there to pick up the customer base, employees, and whatever assets are worth keeping? The same backbone Carriers and PTT's who are making money off Psinet (actually Psinet investors). In fact, the data network operators are now looking at PACKET based pricing model with the QoS (Quality of Service) thrown in to boot. Why is that? Because lo & behold, ISP's are learning that flat pricing for all customers is a rather dumb way of running their business (no wonder very few ISP's make any money).