Oh come on Blue! We cannot have any kind of discussion without implicitly criticizing or denying the opinions of others.
Assertion: "I am rational and I believe in God." (i.e. I believe that I can be both rational and a believer.)
Reply: "I don't believe in God, and I am rational." (I cannot believe in God and still consider myself rational.)
Outcome: Each is implicitly denying the rationality, reasoning process, or beliefs of the other. This doesn't really matter, because no believer can prove his belief to a rational nonbeliever, and may therefore, be somewhat unsure because so many other believers have a belief in a different species of god. To believe in one's own peculiar species of god implicitly denies not only the atheist's denial of a generic god, but of all other believers' species of gods.
To an atheist, of course, all believers in gods are equally wrong. A sense of superiority, of course, comes from knowing that there is no convincing evidence of the existence of any god. That believers believe in one god or other is (to many an atheist) a demonstration that believers are credulous fools. One can see a fertile source of disagreement in various beliefs respecting god. I've known a lot of atheists, and none of them tell me that their disbelief came in the form of a second birth. Many believers have had the experience of rebirth, an indwelling of a spirit which they interpret as holy. The atheist will not necessarily deny the psychological reality of this rebirth, but necessarily, he denies the objective reality of the experience. The atheist may believe that the believer is merely following custom, while the reborn believer is either faking or self-deceiving.
Many believers find it impossible to credit atheists as rational people, instead they think atheists are stubborn or whimsical deniers of truth. I think this conflict and mutual insult is inevitable. Perhaps the only way that we can peacefully debate is if all of us become agnostics and simply deny that we know the truth.
An alternative is for each of us to disclose our beliefs, e.g.
a. "I am a 100 percent, Simon pure, Roman Catholic who believes every thing the Pope utters."
b. "I am a 98% foot washing country Southern Baptist, except that I don't think a woman should be subordinate to her husband"
c. "I am a 100 per cent atheist and deny that Christ, JHVH, Allah, the Great Pumpkin, Ahuramazda, Mumbo Jumbo (God of the Congo), the Great Spirit, the Sun Goddess, or any other god or divinity exists."
d. "I don't believe anything about this god stuff."
If we knew the position of each writer on these issues, it would be easier both to insult and to avoid insulting these beliefs. By the way, I am a 100 percent atheist, but I am a strong believer in the winter solstice and its celebration, not to mention the summer solstice the vernal and autumnal equinoxes. It may be a good idea to light a fire on the winter solstice to rekindle the heavenly fire (which usually has been waning during the last quarter). No use taking chances. If pagans think this is the yule log, okay. I'll even accept the Christmas lights. Let's just keep that heavenly fire going. Would get awfully cold without it.
I might add, that I don't automatically have any respect for anyone's religious beliefs. If one is a member of an established OK nonproselytising religion (I guess that's Judaism) and leaves the public schools, the state, and me and other individuals strictly alone
I can tolerate (but not respect) the belief. I have trouble with the Roman Catholic Church because the bishops are always sticking their noses into politics, shake down the state for money, and restrict other peoples' behavior. Historically, the Church has been oppressive, not liberating. I have trouble with Christian fundamentalists to the extent that they intrude in school, stop teaching of science, and generally make fools of themselves. I have trouble with oppressive Islam (Wahabi, many Shia). Theravada and Zen Buddhism (which are strictly schools of applied psychology and make no theological assertions) I have no problem with (and I accept much of the psychology as scientifically (objectively) valid). I like in all religions those which emphasize believer-controlled remission of sins, peace, meditation, non-violence, and respect for life. I don't see that any of these behaviors have anything to do with the existence of god. I have no respect whatever for any religion that believes in or favors hell, capital punishment, prayer in public school, murder of real existing sentient children, sacrifice of living animals, or opposes artificial birth control, abortion on the mother's demand, euthanasia. Selah! |
